Boutique Orange amp designs?

[senp5f]

Hi All: I am wondering if anyone knows whether there's a boutique amp company that does a version of Orange's AD200B tube bass head.

My thinking is that if I'm spending nearly $2k on an amp, I'd rather go ahead and spend $3.5K to have the manufactuerer get it all correct down to the last detail and not cut any corners. For example, Reeves Custom Amps makes a version of the Hiwatt designs where they basically do everything right on the first go. I know Ampeg also did some U.S. made "heritage series" SVTs where they did the same thing.

Reeves Amplification Custom 400 Bass Amp

That said, has anyone had major problems with Orange stuff or think that it doesn't sound as good as it used to? I'm not a total snob about point-to-point wiring and am not opposed to newer builds. But if I'm gonna shell out for a big tube gun, I would rather put in the money upfront and then not have to worry about the amp aside from the usual tube servicing, cleaning, etc.

[Mr. Foxen]

Orange are cheap copies of Matamp designs, so Matamp are probably what you are thinking of.

[digi]

Matamp in the UK:
Matamp® - Welcome to the official MATAMP Amplification Factory Website

Verellen in the US (west coast):
Verellen Amplifiers - Custom Amplifiers from Seattle Washington

Kneel Amplification in the US (east coast):
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kneel...34957916540361

You'll have to go through a custom order with Verellen or Kneel

[senp5f]

Awesome! Thanks for turning me on to those makers.

I am in the USA in California, so I think Verellen might be a cool option. And, remarkably, it looks like it would cost essentially the same as the AD200 -- $2,400 vs. $2,500, which is negligible.

Anyone have any experience with Verellen stuff? I like the idea of supporting a U.S. maker if I can.

I wish that Orange gear weren't so expensive here...I've always liked the sound and the simplicity, and I hear that it's reasonably priced over in the U.K., sort of like Fender is here in the states. Wonder why there are so many taxes and duties between the two countries on music gear?

[father of fires]

Don't forget:

ELECTRICAMP - ELECTRIC AMP - ELECTRICAMPS : ELECTRIC AMP , USA - Hand Made Custom Tube Amps and Speaker Cabinets

[Mr. Foxen]

Don't forget the US Matamp dealer: http://midwestmatamp.com/

Orange amps are overpriced here too, considering what they are, made in the PRC PCB amps. Get the GT200 from Midwest Matamp, you won't regret it.

[senp5f]

Thanks, Mr. Foxen! I can't believe how close the boutiques are in price....I guess I am used to looking at instruments, where the delta between production line and small-run is far greater.

And I didn't know that the Orange Amps are made in Asia now. I thought they were still U.K. made. I guess I'm not surprised -- after all, so is Ampeg and everyone else. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand, then, why the prices are not lower when compared to the boutiques.

I guess I don't understand how Mesa-Boogie can stay in business making their products here in California (which, by the way, is one of the harder places to run a business in the U.S. -- it varies considerably state by state here) while charging only a little more for a U.S. assembled product than Marshall does for its Chinese made amps.

[sickest beast]

I would go with Electric Amps. No Frills, just bada$$.

[Tim1]

I have an AD200B Mk3version. It has seen some hard work over the past 18 months and never missed a beat. Great classic Orange tone. I can't see any point in spending the extra bucks based on my own experience.

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by senp5f

Thanks, Mr. Foxen! I can't believe how close the boutiques are in price....I guess I am used to looking at instruments, where the delta between production line and small-run is far greater.

And I didn't know that the Orange Amps are made in Asia now. I thought they were still U.K. made. I guess I'm not surprised -- after all, so is Ampeg and everyone else. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand, then, why the prices are not lower when compared to the boutiques.

I guess I don't understand how Mesa-Boogie can stay in business making their products here in California (which, by the way, is one of the harder places to run a business in the U.S. -- it varies considerably state by state here) while charging only a little more for a U.S. assembled product than Marshall does for its Chinese made amps.

When you buy an Orange amp, you are paying for every Orange amp you see being played by endorsers and supplied for backline. They write 'Made in PRC' right under a Union flag on their amps. Orange is a big marketing scheme.

If you are considering Electric, might as well go direct to the guy that makes them: MCNEECE MUSIC
or to Class A Electronics. Paying for less BS that way.

But main thing is, Matamp is the realest deal out there, no marketing BS at all, the owner probably won't even be polite to you if it gets in the way of being straight up honest, and it is pretty likely it will be him who answers the phone.

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by senp5f

..My thinking is that if I'm spending nearly $2k on an amp, I'd rather go ahead and spend $3.5K to have the manufactuerer get it all correct down to the last detail and not cut any corners...

I'll tell ya, this isn't something we manufacturers hear too often. I think I have a little tear in my eye after reading this.

[chillerthanmost]

Originally Posted by senp5f

Anyone have any experience with Verellen stuff? I like the idea of supporting a U.S. maker if I can.

Everything I've heard out of Verellen has blown me away plus Ben is a great dude with awesome service. I fully back supporting him. You won't regret it. Only modern day made amp I would consider getting.

[senp5f]

Originally Posted by R Baer

I'll tell ya, this isn't something we manufacturers hear too often. I think I have a little tear in my eye after reading this.

Well, I tend to think of things in terms of total cost of ownership. I calculate it like this:

Total cost of ownership = price paid + price of improvements/maintenance - price received when reselling


It's been my experience when buying new products that if you go with the inferior product that has a lower upfront cost with the intent of modifying or improving it (say, by adding tubes, a transformer or better speakers), you often end up putting as much cash into the item over the long run as you would have buying quality in the first place.

What's worse, modifying lower-end gear sometimes actually lowers the resale price because people are afraid of the quality of your mod work. The only time I think it makes sense to buy inferior and improve is on the used market -- e.g., buy a beat-to-heck used P-bass, upgrade the pickups and and bridge and have a rockin' bass for half the price of new.

In general, quality gear also holds more of its value on the used market. Back of the envelope, the range for used gear seems to be 50 to 75 percent of the street price for new, and better stuff -- U.S. Laklands, etc. -- always seems to come in at the top end of that spectrum.

It all goes back to something my mother told me once. It went something like this: "If something is important, buy the best you can possibly afford. Years later, you'll have forgotten how much you paid but the quality will still be there."

[Musicman20]

Originally Posted by senp5f

Thanks, Mr. Foxen! I can't believe how close the boutiques are in price....I guess I am used to looking at instruments, where the delta between production line and small-run is far greater.

And I didn't know that the Orange Amps are made in Asia now. I thought they were still U.K. made. I guess I'm not surprised -- after all, so is Ampeg and everyone else. I'm at a bit of a loss to understand, then, why the prices are not lower when compared to the boutiques.

I guess I don't understand how Mesa-Boogie can stay in business making their products here in California (which, by the way, is one of the harder places to run a business in the U.S. -- it varies considerably state by state here) while charging only a little more for a U.S. assembled product than Marshall does for its Chinese made amps.

My AD200b Mk3 was built in the UK, as was the 4x10 and 1x15 cabs I bought with it.

All of the 'Terror' amps and a few of their guitar cabs are built in China, and the price reflects that.

[Tim1]

Yes, I believe the AD200 Mk3 is UK made, plus down here the AD200 is two thirds the price of an SVT VR!

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by senp5f

Well, I tend to think of things in terms of total cost of ownership... It all goes back to something my mother told me once. It went something like this: "If something is important, buy the best you can possibly afford. Years later, you'll have forgotten how much you paid but the quality will still be there."

Your'e mother is a very wise woman! I think the term "value" has really lost its meaning with todays WalMart mentality of buying products. Value now means getting a product at the absolute lowest price and then throwing it away when it's broken. When we were first married, we bought a Maytag washer and dryer that was made in the USA and lasted us well over 20 years. Pretty good value, I'd say. Our next washer and dryer, made in China, is 5 years old and already falling apart. But, at least it was cheap, right?

[Bass_Thumper]

Hmm, never really considered Hiwatt and Orange as companies that cut corners. You can indeed get a Chinese Orange (I have a Tiny Terror and it's a rock machine) but you can certainly get the British made stuff and I would hesitate on that stuff for a second.

[Musicman20]

The AD200 was much cheaper and better for my goals compared to the SVT-VR. The SVT is expensive in the UK, and the warranty isn't that strong over here, (lots of messing about). Orange are based not far from London and always answer emails very quickly.

Orange or Matamp, cant go wrong.

[edbass]

Originally Posted by Bass_Thumper

Hmm, never really considered Hiwatt and Orange as companies that cut corners. You can indeed get a Chinese Orange (I have a Tiny Terror and it's a rock machine) but you can certainly get the British made stuff and I would hesitate on that stuff for a second.

This link will take you to a description of the “corners” that the new Orange cut with their UK AD200.

ORANGE Voice of The World AD200 MK3 Bass Amp

PCB construction in and of itself isn’t an issue IMO, however; mounting the tube sockets, input jacks, output jacks, and potentiometers directly to those PCBs is about as “corner cutting” as it gets.

The only thing “boutique” about the new British Oranges amps is the heritage of what Orange used to be, and of course the price…

I think they sound pretty good, but that $2400-$2500 for a stripped down, mass produced 160 watt PCB amp is more than a bit excessive.
If it were competitively priced like a Peavey VB2 or Traynor YBA200 at around $850 it would be a value IMO. I don’t know if even the value priced Peavey or Traynor product mounts high stress components directly to fragile PCBs though; never been inside one or seen a gut shot.

Of course all those high profile endorsements, internet banners, and glossy print ads cost serious money.
I don’t have a problem spending big money on gear (Like R Baer I also agree with senp5f’s mother), but personally I’d rather spend my amp buying dollars on the product rather than the company’s marketing department.

[Musicman20]

That link always gets brought up. Love to see a comparison to the recent SVT-CL which is still very expensive, and weighs about twice as much or more.

They aren't boutique, but they DO sound good. Sounds is the reason for the amp...and being in the UK I have the UK warranty.