Bueller? Bueller? Stingray?

Rumblefisher · #1 06-16-2010, 02:30 PM

There a quite a few Jazz bass and Precision bass 'copies' out there (although I tend to think of them as takes on a classic moreso than copies). Alleva-Coppolo, Sadowsky, Nordstrand, Lull, LowEnd, etc etc...the list goes on, and it really is great quality gear.

What I don't see a lot of, and would very much like to, is a Stingray builder. I don't think many would argue it's not a classic bass. For those who would give the "If it ain't broke" argument, the same could be said of P and Js.

I know LowEnd just started making their version of the Thunderbird... I think it's time to see some Stingray stuff as well. Who's with me?

Ric5 · #2 06-16-2010, 02:39 PM

Fender did not enfore their trademark on the p-bass and jazz bass so people can legally copy them. Musicman does enforce their trademark so they can legally stop others from making copies. The only legal copies of the Stingray bass were the OLP basses. Rickenbacker also enforces their trademarks and that is why there aren't many copies of Rics out there either.

i_got_a_mohawk · #3 06-16-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric5

Fender did not enfore their trademark on the p-bass and jazz bass so people can legally copy them. Musicman does enforce their trademark so they can legally stop others from making copies. The only legal copies of the Stingray bass were the OLP basses. Rickenbacker also enforces their trademarks and that is why there aren't many copies of Rics out there either.

In the US that is

mikezimmerman · #4 06-16-2010, 02:46 PM

I think I would normally post this in "Basses" rather than "Amps".

I hear ya on Stingrays being a classic, but I suspect the reason there aren't more copies is that Ernie Ball is still a relatively small company with a narrow product line compared to Fender, and they did not have some of the quality issues that spawned the Fender replacement parts industry in the 70's and 80's. I suspect that's really what enabled the whole "Fender clone" thing to happen to the degree it has.

Mike

bongomania · #5 06-16-2010, 02:55 PM

No, I'm sorry but Ric5's answer was the 100% correct one. As well as Mohawk's rejoinder.

There are SR cloners outside the US, and they are forbidden, by US law, from selling any here. EBMM enforces their rights quite firmly.

Rumblefisher · #6 06-16-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

I think I would normally post this in "Basses" rather than "Amps".

I hear ya on Stingrays being a classic, but I suspect the reason there aren't more copies is that Ernie Ball is still a relatively small company with a narrow product line compared to Fender, and they did not have some of the quality issues that spawned the Fender replacement parts industry in the 70's and 80's. I suspect that's really what enabled the whole "Fender clone" thing to happen to the degree it has.

Mike

Oh man, I definitely thought that I DID post this in basses. You are totally correct, sorry guys! Superstar move on my part.

Rumblefisher · #7 06-16-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric5

Fender did not enfore their trademark on the p-bass and jazz bass so people can legally copy them. Musicman does enforce their trademark so they can legally stop others from making copies. The only legal copies of the Stingray bass were the OLP basses. Rickenbacker also enforces their trademarks and that is why there aren't many copies of Rics out there either.

Did not know this. Makes sense.

mikezimmerman · #8 06-16-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

No, I'm sorry but Ric5's answer was the 100% correct one. As well as Mohawk's rejoinder.

There are SR cloners outside the US, and they are forbidden, by US law, from selling any here. EBMM enforces their rights quite firmly.

I'll buy that.

Calaverasgrande · #9 06-16-2010, 05:08 PM

That and the fender P is what 60 years old? I dont know if Fender even can enforce trademark or copyright on the P anymore. Maybe the Jazz as well. The rick is quite old too, but honestly only popular with us rocker types and compared to a P bass is a lot of work to copy.
The Musicman Stingray has been ripped off a lot, mostly they just make a big bridge and put an exposed polepiece pickup with two (or three) coils right next to the bridge. See MTD Korean import line for an example, as well as almost any Traben and the Ibanez ATK models. The Peavey T40 was a musicman clone in some aspects (it kinda succeeds beyond expectations, if I didnt have cabinet GAS i would be hunting one down!).

Heck just about every manufacturer offers their basses with a "MM" pickup option. What do ya think those initials stand for? Marshmallow?

i_got_a_mohawk · #10 06-16-2010, 05:17 PM

The ATK for instance, while a nod in the direction of the Stingray, and certainly Ibanez's answer to the Stingray. Is not a rip off. Neither are the other basses you have listed.

"MM" pickups are called that because they were the first basses to have them, just like a P pickup is from a P bass and a J pickup is from a J bass.

We are talking clones here, basses which copy the asthetics of the original nearly identically.

bongomania · #11 06-16-2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

The Musicman Stingray has been ripped off a lot, mostly they just make a big bridge and put an exposed polepiece pickup with two (or three) coils right next to the bridge. See MTD Korean import line for an example, as well as almost any Traben and the Ibanez ATK models. The Peavey T40 was a musicman clone in some aspects (it kinda succeeds beyond expectations, if I didnt have cabinet GAS i would be hunting one down!).

Heck just about every manufacturer offers their basses with a "MM" pickup option. What do ya think those initials stand for? Marshmallow?

In fact, that "roll eyes" is nowhere near big enough. Absolutely none of the products you named are anything like a clone of any EBMM bass. They may shoot for a similar sound, and they may have one big pickup near the bridge, but that is the end of the line. EBMM does not own the idea of one big pickup near the bridge, and they obviously cannot trademark their tone. As far as "MM" pups, EBMM does not own the letters "MM" and they do not have a lock on the "one big pup with exposed pole pieces" or "a big bridge".

Calaverasgrande · #12 06-16-2010, 11:46 PM

You didnt see humbuckers of that size on basses until Leo did it. Ernie Ball (or rather Sterling Ball) has been diligent about preventing the dilution of the brand by straight knockoffs. But the Trabens if they arent going for that Ray SOUND I dont know what they are.
I have also read statements by folks from Ibanez that said the ATK was supposed to be the Stingray-Killer, and they were very surprised by its weak sales.
Peavey T40? Seriously. It sounds like a Ray to me.
The MTDs I love those basses because they sound kind of like a nicer more polite, cheaper version of a stingray (or a sterling actually kinda).
Okay I forget how you guys on this forum take everything way too literally. I was talking about tone, I guess you guys only care about looks.
Might want to consider implementing Sharia law around here maybe?

Dillon has made some, I believe there were some Jerry Jones(?) as well. Straight knock offs that sounded nothing like a real ray but looked darn similar.
A certain guitar shop in California made some Subrays that were made from various aftermarket parts and did a darn good job of melding fender, musicman and G&L tones together.

Dr Funk · #13 06-17-2010, 12:18 AM

One thought... Lakland.

bongomania · #14 06-17-2010, 12:35 AM

Reading the OP it seems to me he was talking about the look, the physical design, more than the sound. All the "copies" he mentioned are heavily Fenderesque, they are not random-looking basses that happen to sound like a P or a J.

LightGroove · #15 07-18-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Funk

One thought... Lakland.

Been there...done that and ....

chopthebass · #16 07-18-2010, 03:40 PM

You didn't like Lakland??

i_got_a_mohawk · #17 07-18-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

You didnt see humbuckers of that size on basses until Leo did it. Ernie Ball (or rather Sterling Ball) has been diligent about preventing the dilution of the brand by straight knockoffs. But the Trabens if they arent going for that Ray SOUND I dont know what they are.
I have also read statements by folks from Ibanez that said the ATK was supposed to be the Stingray-Killer, and they were very surprised by its weak sales.
Peavey T40? Seriously. It sounds like a Ray to me.
The MTDs I love those basses because they sound kind of like a nicer more polite, cheaper version of a stingray (or a sterling actually kinda).
Okay I forget how you guys on this forum take everything way too literally. I was talking about tone, I guess you guys only care about looks.
Might want to consider implementing Sharia law around here maybe?

Dillon has made some, I believe there were some Jerry Jones(?) as well. Straight knock offs that sounded nothing like a real ray but looked darn similar.
A certain guitar shop in California made some Subrays that were made from various aftermarket parts and did a darn good job of melding fender, musicman and G&L tones together.

A clone guitar or bass is almost 100% about the look.