Building a cab; 12/6 vs 2x12 vs 2x10??

[NickCormier]

I have some good bass cabs so far, but they are pretty massive, so I am looking for a nice small cab that can be used for small gigs, and not need a truck to load them in.

I have a good cabinet maker who makes cabs for me, and while he has some bass knowledge, he mostly makes guitar cabs, so in regards to using WinISO and calculating all that junk, hes not the best at it, so some help would be nice.

First off, like I said im looking at smaller cabs, so what I was deciding between is the 12/6/1 fearful type, or a 2x12 with a tweeter (or 2x10 with tweeter).. Im looking for a hi-fi type tone, but still loud enough to do small-medium gigs on its own (and maybe larger when mic'd)

The 12/6/1 would be the most compact in size, yet im afraid it wont be as loud as a 2x10 or 2x12 would be.

Im looking to use an Eminence Deltalite or Kappalite 12 btw.

So far, my dimensions from just guess work so far, would be around 24W 13H 12D.. does that sound like it'd be ok? Ideally, id rather have a shallower depth, and larger H/W, rather than a huge depth of like 18+.. Thats one of the reasons my current cab cant fit in my car, is the 17D along with the height/W.

any help?

[Blues Bass 2]

If you have 500 watts or so the 12/6/1 would be the cabinet you'd want . Greenboy has the plans on his fEarful wiki so you could just have your carpenter buddy make one for you . With that high output 12 " and that mid and enough power it will easily get as loud as a good 210 and go deeper and clearer . And it would be enough for quite a few gigs too . You pretty much need an amp that will put out 500 watts at 8 ohms to take full advantage of it capability though .

[NickCormier]

Yea, the 12/6/1 is ideal, due to the size being slightly smaller.. So you are positive it can push out more than a 210 or 212?? Its just odd, I understand how it would sound better overall/more hi-fi, which is what I want, but im kinda confused how it would be as loud as a good 210 or 212..

Also, so I understand abit more.. the whole "fEarful" word is based off this 12/6/1 combination right? so when you hear that word, thats what it means essentially?? What 6.5" driver is usually used for them?

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by NickCormier

I have some good bass cabs so far, but they are pretty massive, so I am looking for a nice small cab that can be used for small gigs, and not need a truck to load them in.

I have a good cabinet maker who makes cabs for me, and while he has some bass knowledge, he mostly makes guitar cabs, so in regards to using WinISO and calculating all that junk, hes not the best at it, so some help would be nice.

First off, like I said im looking at smaller cabs, so what I was deciding between is the 12/6/1 fearful type, or a 2x12 with a tweeter (or 2x10 with tweeter).. Im looking for a hi-fi type tone, but still loud enough to do small-medium gigs on its own (and maybe larger when mic'd)

The 12/6/1 would be the most compact in size, yet im afraid it wont be as loud as a 2x10 or 2x12 would be.

Im looking to use an Eminence Deltalite or Kappalite 12 btw.

So far, my dimensions from just guess work so far, would be around 24W 13H 12D.. does that sound like it'd be ok? Ideally, id rather have a shallower depth, and larger H/W, rather than a huge depth of like 18+.. Thats one of the reasons my current cab cant fit in my car, is the 17D along with the height/W.

any help?

if you gotta pay a guy to make them you will be just as well to order one from a custom builder....they have done the math,and have the jigs to cut down on construction costs.....there are several guys on here that would be worth talking to

[Philonius]

You might also look around at the Bill Fitzmaurice site,http://billfitzmaurice.net/ , particularly the Jack cabinets. I bought a fEarful 12/6 from someone on this board, and quickly decided it was more of a pain to move around than I was interested in. (Wanna buy mine?)

I am just starting in building 2 BFM Jack 10s, and from what I've been lead to believe they have a very hi fidelity sound, especially when built with the peizo tweeter array. I couldn't quantify how they would compare with a fEarful, but they are said to have very even output, and be highly efficient.

What I really like about this approach is the scalability; two 16 x 16 x 20 boxes that weigh under 30# each. That means one easy load for smaller shows or two reasonable loads for a rig that will compete with a good 4x10.

Choose either and you won't go far wrong as far as I can tell.

[NickCormier]

the thing about buying from another builder, is it usually costs 3 to 4 times more than this builder im using.

I will mention, this builder IS a professional guitar cabinet builder; so he makes cabs for a living. The thing obviously, is he deals mostly guitar cabs. But he does have a decent knowledge of bass cab designs, just not to the level of certain bass cab fanatics here. The last cab he made for me though, was the exact dimensions of a Genz Benz Neo 2x12, and it sounds great. Its just huge, its about the size of a normal 4x10, so I'd like something smaller.

Hes also in Canada, and shipping is under $50, even for a 40 lbs cab.. while ordering a cab from a builder in the states would be over $150 most likely.

[Blues Bass 2]

The 12/6/1 will be as loud as most 210 cabs but won't match a 212 cabinet for volume . For something that will do that Philonious has the right idea , a BFM Jack 210 or a pair of the 110s . It won't go as super deep as a fEarful but will get louder with less watts and still be portable .

[DukeLeJeune]

The size cabinet you describe is too small for most 12" woofer, let alone a 2x12, unless you want a really peaky upper bass with no low bass. However the Kappalite 3012LF would work, though your proposed cab is definitely on the small side. So I suggest an adaptation of the fEarful 12/6. Porting might be an issue, but probably not an insurmountable one.

[wcriley]

Originally Posted by Philonius

You might also look around at the Bill Fitzmaurice site,http://billfitzmaurice.net/ , particularly the Jack cabinets. I bought a fEarful 12/6 from someone on this board, and quickly decided it was more of a pain to move around than I was interested in. (Wanna buy mine?)

I am just starting in building 2 BFM Jack 10s, and from what I've been lead to believe they have a very hi fidelity sound, especially when built with the peizo tweeter array. I couldn't quantify how they would compare with a fEarful, but they are said to have very even output, and be highly efficient.

What I really like about this approach is the scalability; two 16 x 16 x 20 boxes that weigh under 30# each. That means one easy load for smaller shows or two reasonable loads for a rig that will compete with a good 4x10.

Choose either and you won't go far wrong as far as I can tell.

Are you sure the cab you bought is a fEARful? My 12/6 only weighs a little more than 35 lbs.
I'd rather pack and carry one 16x16x24, 40 lb box than two 15x16x20, 30 lb boxes.

Jack10s are good PA cabs, but they don't do it for me as bass guitar cabs. The size and efficiency seems to come at the expense of low end. YMMV, of course.

Although I haven't tried one, I'd think a BFM Omni (full range version, not OmniTop) would be better suited for bass guitar.

[rogypop]

Originally Posted by Philonius

You might also look around at the Bill Fitzmaurice site,http://billfitzmaurice.net/ , particularly the Jack cabinets. I bought a fEarful 12/6 from someone on this board, and quickly decided it was more of a pain to move around than I was interested in. (Wanna buy mine?)

I am just starting in building 2 BFM Jack 10s, and from what I've been lead to believe they have a very hi fidelity sound, especially when built with the peizo tweeter array. I couldn't quantify how they would compare with a fEarful, but they are said to have very even output, and be highly efficient.

What I really like about this approach is the scalability; two 16 x 16 x 20 boxes that weigh under 30# each. That means one easy load for smaller shows or two reasonable loads for a rig that will compete with a good 4x10.

Choose either and you won't go far wrong as far as I can tell.

let us know when you finish it!

[Nordskov]

I have build some of the BMF models. An Omni10.5, an OmniTop12 and a Titan39.
The Omni12 and Titan39 was build for use in a PA and especially the Omni12 is a really good value. Its very defined, even with a melded array. I would like to hear it with a CD horn.

The Omni10.5 was build to be a practice and small monitor cabinet for bass.
The high efficiency is acheaved on the cost of low end.
And although the cab sounds fantastic with my fretless Fender Jazz it gets anemic in the low end department with my 5-str. Sandberg.
I find the Omni 10.5 sound boxy due to the peak at 200 Hz. It's nothing that an EQ cant tame, but I dont have a graphic EQ in my bass stack, so its an issue for me.
The Jack also has a peak from 200+ Hz and a lack of low end. This might fill the need for some bass players, but if you want low end and hi-fi at the same time, I dont think a Jack is the way to go unless you plan to do some heavy EQ.

On the other hand, BMF is very lightweight and fEarful12.6 isn't.

Oh - those ever lasting dilemmas

[rogypop]

Originally Posted by Nordskov

I have build some of the BMF models. An Omni10.5, an OmniTop12 and a Titan39.
The Omni12 and Titan39 was build for use in a PA and especially the Omni12 is a really good value. Its very defined, even with a melded array. I would like to hear it with a CD horn.

The Omni10.5 was build to be a practice and small monitor cabinet for bass.
The high efficiency is acheaved on the cost of low end.
And although the cab sounds fantastic with my fretless Fender Jazz it gets anemic in the low end department with my 5-str. Sandberg.
I find the Omni 10.5 sound boxy due to the peak at 200 Hz. It's nothing that an EQ cant tame, but I dont have a graphic EQ in my bass stack, so its an issue for me.
The Jack also has a peak from 200+ Hz and a lack of low end. This might fill the need for some bass players, but if you want low end and hi-fi at the same time, I dont think a Jack is the way to go unless you plan to do some heavy EQ.

On the other hand, BMF is very lightweight and fEarful12.6 isn't.

Oh - those ever lasting dilemmas

And what do you think about those omni´s if you forget about low b? A lot of folks claim the jack 10 to be the best sounding Bill´s cab for bass guitar, i think i will go for two of them No offence, but anyone who finds fearful 12/6 heavy should be planning on visiting gym or doctor, if you are under fifty of course.

[Philonius]

56 and counting, just had back surgery, and thanks for your concern. I'm a spry old bugger, but more the endurance type than a heavy mover. And yes, I'll be hitting the gym soon with every intention of polishing up my fitness.

Agreed, the fEarful isn't that much to manage, but awkward enough that I wanted to down scale. Everyone has their own personal biases, and I wanted to have one small cab that would be super easy to carry and would be, for me, good'nuff. I'll sacrifice a bit of low end response as part of the bargain. With a pair, I don't expect to feel that I'm lacking any tone and will have more volume available than I'll ever, ever need. YMMV. I'm just throwing out the BFM as another option to consider.

[rpsands]

Buy a Thunderchild.

[IntrepidCellist]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Buy a Thunderchild.

+1. Very manageable and car-friendly, and plenty loud with great dispersion.

[wcriley]

Originally Posted by Nordskov

...On the other hand, BMF is very lightweight and fEarful12.6 isn't...

How is 36 lbs NOT a lightweight bass cab?

I do agree with your assessment of the Jack10, though. It's not my cup of tea.

Has anyone tried a Jack15?

[rogypop]

Has anyone tried a Jack15?[/quote]

I want to know the same thing but i doubt it will be many of these around, its form factor could be a problem of fitting it in smaller cars but I may be wrong, of course.

[NickCormier]

So.. with a 12 or 13" depth.. what should my other dimensions be for a 12/6/1 to fill out the volume for the box??

[DukeLeJeune]

Originally Posted by NickCormier

So.. with a 12 or 13" depth.. what should my other dimensions be for a 12/6/1 to fill out the volume for the box??

My suggestion is to push the width of the cabinet out to the point where you have about 1.7 cubic feet net internal volume, after woofer, ports, midrange chamber, and bracing. This is still smaller that a fEarful, but reasonable for a compact cab.

For ports, I will depart from fEarful tradition and suggest a pair of 3" diameter Precision Ports, flared on both ends to delay the onset of chuffing, placed symmetrically around the woofer. I don't think you'll have room on the front of the box, so that leaves the sides and the rear panel. With a small box like this, you want the ports symmetrical so that the air load on the back of the cone is less likley to induce cone rocking (which can cause the voice coil to tap the edges of the magnetic gap; I got that in one of my compact prototypes).

Here is Precision Port's online port length calculator:

http://www.psp-inc.com/tools.html

I recommend port lengths based on a calculated tuning frequency of about 50 to 52 Hz; in this shape box, the actual tuning frequency will end up being about 2 Hz less. You will end up -3 dB in the lower 50's, with no upper bass bumpage. This is a real-world spec; no marketing department optimism.

Make sure the ports' inner flare will clear the woofer's basket, or else you'll have an embarassing problem at some point in your final assembly process.

[m.oreilly]

thanks for that port calc link duke