Building a superior 2x10 cab

[Arjank]

I allways wanted to have a studio sound on stage.
Now I have a concept in my head that should come close to achieving this goal.
Since I build loudspeakers for hifi and studio applications for over 20 years I thought lets build a superior 2x10 cabinet.

First we need to know why most of these 2x10 cabs with tweeters do not have a studio sound: conebreakup
All of these cabs have a crossover frequency of about 3 to 4khz. Allmost all 10' woofers will have a conebreakup between 2 and 4khz. This means that the decay at that frequency is also very long. Long decay will not make your sound clear and crisp. This is not what we want.
So, what do we need then. A low crossover point.
And what tweeters can handle a low crossover point (say 1.5khz)? 2"drivers.
Couple a good 2" driver to a 8" Tractrix horn and you'll have the tweeter for a superior 2x10cab
I have done some great tests with 8" tractrix horns before, these type of horns sound very hifi.

Then, we need a good 10" driver that can move some air and has low distortion. A high xmax is what we need.
I found this beast http://www.oberton.com/index.php?opt...e-loudspeakers
I now have two of these at home all I can say is that they are way better then e.g. an Eminence Deltalite. When the deltalite started farting(distortion) the Oberton speaker still produced a very clear tone. I could push the Oberton much further before it started to distort. This one can move as much air as 2 "regular" 10's like the deltalite.
Also, these guys don't need a huge cab to perform good.
In the upcoming post I will show the cabinet design.

[mikeddd]

I find your ideas very interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Sub'd. Here's the data page:
http://www.oberton.com/index.php?opt...e-loudspeakers

[Sundogue]

I built a 210/6 cab using Eminence BP102's with a dedicated mid driver (but no tweeter). The BP102 has a superior xmax to the 10B200 and also goes lower. It has about the same sensitivity, power handling and weight too. The BP102 also comes in either 4 or 8 ohms.

Acme already has a 210 cab that does what you are after, but I'm interested in seeing what you come up with too.



Since the cab weighed 47 lbs. I did redo this cab and built two lightweight 110/6 cabs instead that has the same "studio quality" tone I was after with the 210 (22 lbs. each)...

[MuzikMan]

Since you design hi-fi and studio speakers you should be fully aware that multiple drivers operating in the same frequency range has many design flaws in the near field. This should lead you to the conclusion that a 2 x 10 cab is not the path to take for studio type results. Consider using a single larger driver for the low end and cross it over with a dedicated midrange.

[rpsands]

Based on the sensitivity numbers and a comparison of the curves, that woofer gives up >3db on the deltalite. While the deltalite does have about half the displacement limited power handling it's as loud as two of those Oberton woofers and weighs 50% less.

I'll pass.

[Swampman Cory]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

love the colors of that cab.

[mikeddd]

[rogypop]

Originally Posted by MuzikMan

Since you design hi-fi and studio speakers you should be fully aware that multiple drivers operating in the same frequency range has many design flaws in the near field. This should lead you to the conclusion that a 2 x 10 cab is not the path to take for studio type results. Consider using a single larger driver for the low end and cross it over with a dedicated midrange.

There are no flaws at all if those multiple drivers are all same and vertically alligned. You get troubles with phase if you have two or more different drivers operating in the same bandwidth.

[MuzikMan]

You really believe that?

[craig.p]

The other problem is defining "studio sound." One person may define it as an active bass with new Rotosounds, tone controls set flat, running straight to the board. Another may define it as a Precision strung with decades-old flatwounds, running into a chorus, then into serial LA-2As, then into a Sonic Maximizer, then into...

And then the other thing is that sometimes you DON'T want your cab to be hi-fi. Sometimes you WANT your cab to be a bit nonlinear, because that's become part of your (or the band's) trademark sound. I've run through cabs that were so clean and so flat that they were pretty much intolerable, absent some significant and intentional downstream upstream mucking-up to compensate.

Interesting, though, the country code for Bulgaria is... BG. Coincidence? Or plot?

[MuzikMan]

Here's some more good reading.

http://yu-ra.tripod.com/array.htm

[rogypop]

Originally Posted by MuzikMan

You really believe that?

It is like that, problem of a for example, standard 4x10 cab is not in its multiple drivers but in the allignment of the drivers on the baffle. 10 inchers side by side have projection of the mids something like one 20 inch driver, which is not good. But if you take two good 2x10 cabs and stack them vertically, you will get one serious rig due to the proximity of drivers to your ear level and increased horizontal dispersion.

[Arjank]

Based on the sensitivity numbers and a comparison of the curves, that woofer gives up >3db on the deltalite. While the deltalite does have about half the displacement limited power handling it's as loud as two of those Oberton woofers and weighs 50% less.

In real life the Oberton eats the deltalite for breakfast, I have compared both of them side by side

It's good to see all the comments, everybody has his own thoughts about it and thats good.

About the "studio" sound, well, what I want is a cabinet that has nearly no coloration. The coloration should come from the pre-amp and the bass it self. See it like this, what is the best way to get the same sound onstage and through the PA (when you channel your signal via the pre out to the PA) The best way is having a cab that is as neutral as it gets. When you have a cab that colours the sound, how do you get that sound through the PA? Mic it?

About multipledrivers.... When I use 2 10"woofers a round 8" tractrix horn with 2"driver and cross them at 1.5 khz I will get a very uniform radiation pattern because of the low crossover point and because the tractrixhorn has a very smooth radiation pattern. Also, I will have less phaseshifting and combing effects then a 2x10 cab and tweeter crossed at 3.5khz.

Here a picture of the design I have in mind.

[craig.p]

Originally Posted by Arjank

When you have a cab that colours the sound, how do you get that sound through the PA? Mic it?

Yes.

[Arjank]

The BP102 has a superior xmax to the 10B200 and also goes lower

I have not yet compared them to the Eminence bp102, I know it has a larger xmax(on paper).
But, the Eminence deltalite almost has the same xmax(on paper) as the 10b200 still the Oberton has way less distortion. When the deltalite got beyond it's xmax it's distortion went through the roof, the Oberton stays pretty much clean even when pushed beyond it's xmax.
I also have had other eminence drivers, but the Oberton is just a different animal. Believe me, I was stunned when I first saw and heard what this driver can do.

[mikeddd]

A monitor wedge? I guess that would be fine for use as a monitor for the player, but not so good for the audience to hear you. Also, this cab is sealed, correct? What's the "Q" of the cab?

[Arjank]

Quote:Originally Posted by Arjank
When you have a cab that colours the sound, how do you get that sound through the PA? Mic it?

Yes.

But, you can not close mic a cab with tweeter (you can but the results are not satisfying)
Mic a cab without tweeter will be less of a problem.

[Arjank]

A monitor wedge? I guess that would be fine for use as a monitor for the player, but not so good for the audience to hear you. Also, this cab is sealed, correct? What's the "Q" of the cab?

In a small venue I can place this cab on it's side so it projects also to the audience. Thats why I designed it like this.

It will be ported.

[dhomer]

No U.S. distributorship? Impossible to get Oberton stateside? That alone would be a non-starter for most of us...

[Arjank]

No U.S. distributorship? Impossible to get Oberton stateside? That alone would be a non-starter for most of us...

Hmm... you have point there.
Let me check that out.