Built in DI vs. DI box

[DeivoxCarnal]

I have a couple of combo amps, a SWR Workingman's 12, (100 watts) and a Trace Elliot GP7SM combo (130 watts)

Both amps have a DI, and since I got the Trace I love the EQ on it so much that my old SWR is sitting unused.

Before I got the Trace I was thinking about getting a DI box, as I was not happy as I thought I would be about the low end, but now that I'm happy with the sound and not playing any gigs at places with PA's I was wondering if I even need one.

I was looking into boxes that had overdrive built in, but now I'm thinking I'd be better off just buying a bass muff or something.

So the question is: Is there any advantage that a DI box would give me that my trace doesn't already provide? (besides overdrive)

Also could anyone give me a ballpark price that my SWR might be worth? I've done some searches and not come up with a sale that was my exact amp.

Thanks for the help guys, this forum rocks!

[naturalkinds]

No advantages to a DI box UNLESS you plan to EITHER record via DI OR perform in a venue that pumps you through the PA via DI.

[atomicman96]

A direct box (DI) changes the input from a instrument level to a line level. How it does this I have no idea. Your amp is made to take an instrument level input, so you gain nothing with a DI box. The DI out on your amp is for a soundman if he wants to take your signal directly from your amp rather than micing the cab. If you want effects, buy the effects (like you were saying).

[Ukiah Bass]

The built-in DI on my Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 provides both line level and mic level output, and pre or post EQ signal. I tested the DI on a Shuttle 6.0 I used to own and it provided identical performance to a Countryman DI. You might do a recording test on your existing DI against an external box DI and listen to the difference, and analyze the wave forms to see how it stacks up. No use buying extra gear if you don't need it.

This thread shows the results and what you might look for:

Comparing the Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 DI to the Countryman Type 85 Direct Box

[praisegig]

I thought it nice to have an amp that has built in DI that takes it's signal post EQ and FX, before preamp. Then your sound of the amp is the same at the soundboard, so no external DI required.

[brendanbassist]

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

No advantages to a DI box UNLESS you plan to EITHER record via DI OR perform in a venue that pumps you through the PA via DI.

I believe he's asking about the difference between using the DI out form his amp vs using a separate DI box?

If thats the question, it shouldn't matter (as long as it's a decent amp).

[nicoli]

Originally Posted by brendanbassist

I believe he's asking about the difference between using the DI out form his amp vs using a separate DI box?

If thats the question, it shouldn't matter (as long as it's a decent amp).

Some DIs from the amp don't have a ground lift option, which provides a potential problem if that's the case with your amp. I don't think I've ever seen a DI box not include a ground lift, so that is the one potential advantage I can see. That said, if you're not planning on running into a PA there's no need for either one.

[countrybassist]

Originally Posted by DeivoxCarnal

So the question is: Is there any advantage that a DI box would give me that my trace doesn't already provide? (besides overdrive)

No. I use a DI because my SVT doesn't have one. But when I use my LMII which does, I just DI out of that.

[christoph h.]

Depending on what gear you have, one advantage can be better sound. I also have a LMII and I don't like the sound of the built-in DI at all.
A box like the Radial JDI sounds much better in my opinion.

Of course it also comes down to the question whether you hear these tonal differences in a live mix (or if you hear them, if you care enough!)

[daflores]

The output of the DI on my Mesa Carbine 9 is too hot for the system that I played through last week. I could have lowered my gain but it would have affected my stage tone so luckily I brought along my Bassbone DI. It worked out much better.

[DeivoxCarnal]

Originally Posted by nicoli

Some DIs from the amp don't have a ground lift option, which provides a potential problem if that's the case with your amp. I don't think I've ever seen a DI box not include a ground lift, so that is the one potential advantage I can see. That said, if you're not planning on running into a PA there's no need for either one.

My new Trace Elliot has a ground lift, so no problem there.

I guess what I'm really wondering here is whether or not a DI box would be overkill for the purpose of EQ'ing / tone shaping.

You see the amp already has a 7 band EQ that I'm actually fairly impressed with, and I'm doubting that a DI would help me create a cleaner, more defined sound, but I don't own one to do a side by side comparison with my amp's DI.

[RickenBoogie]

A DI box, in and of itself, will have absolutely no bearing on eqing your amp. If you're talking about the many DI's that are also preamps, like the Tone Hammer, MXR Bass DI+, etc, then it's the preamp/eq that you're talking about, NOT the DI.

[BassmanPaul]

The thing you have to watch when using an amplifiers internal DI is phantom power. Some are transformer isolated and they are fine. Others simply cannot handle +48 volts on their outputs and blow.

Paul

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by daflores

The output of the DI on my Mesa Carbine 9 is too hot for the system that I played through last week. I could have lowered my gain but it would have affected my stage tone so luckily I brought along my Bassbone DI. It worked out much better.

Besides the possibility of DI from the Bassbone, you might also try the DI level control on the back of the M9, just above the tuner out.

I had a similar problem with my SWR 350 once. I believe the trim pot on the board was not adjusted properly. The sound person was not wanting to deal with it, and instead insisted I use a separate DI. Luckily, I had my Countryman type 85 with me.

[daflores]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

Besides the possibility of DI from the Bassbone, you might also try the DI level control on the back of the M9, just above the tuner out.

I had a similar problem with my SWR 350 once. I believe the trim pot on the board was not adjusted properly. The sound person was not wanting to deal with it, and instead insisted I use a separate DI. Luckily, I had my Countryman type 85 with me.

I should have done a better job of reading the M9's rear panel. I thought the level control was for the effects loop. Thanks.

[DeivoxCarnal]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

A DI box, in and of itself, will have absolutely no bearing on eqing your amp. If you're talking about the many DI's that are also preamps, like the Tone Hammer, MXR Bass DI+, etc, then it's the preamp/eq that you're talking about, NOT the DI.

Thanks for clearing that up

Yes, I had a DI + preamp in mind.
I see now how not being specific was kind of confusing, but I'm referring to a DI box with a built in preamp.

You see I have friend who just raves about how much his sansamp improves the tone of his bass, and I've heard other people say similar things about similar products.

So, given that my amp has a 7-band pre-amp and a DI out, (plus a ground lift switch in the back) would I get any additional versatility out of my rig from one of the many DI + preamp boxes available?

When I say versatile I mean either in the tone department or some other features often included in a DI box.

Oh and thanks BassmanPaul for the phantom power tip, I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks for all the helpful info guys!

[scotch]

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

No advantages to a DI box UNLESS you plan to EITHER record via DI OR perform in a venue that pumps you through the PA via DI.

I dunno... I have to strongly disagree here.

I think the #1 reason for using a separate di (not built into your amp) is that with a separate di, you can still pull off the gig even if your amp fails. Granted, catastrophic amp failure is pretty rare- but I like having the peace of mind that even if my amp were to die (and I have had rental rigs totally crap out!), I need not scramble around the venue trying to find a di so that the show can go on!

Having a discreet, independent di means little, if any, interruption in the show for the audience - if your amp totally craps out. An amp-integrated di can die even if you simply blow a fuse (a more common show occurence).

Trust me, the 1st time you can't finish a show because your drummers' girlfriend spills her Smirnoff Ice into the back of your amp head- you'll wish you'd just gone ahead and bought a decent stand-alone di!

[DeivoxCarnal]

Originally Posted by scotch

Trust me, the 1st time you can't finish a show because your drummers' girlfriend spills her Smirnoff Ice into the back of your amp head- you'll wish you'd just gone ahead and bought a decent stand-alone di!

Hahah, excellent point, thank god my drummer doesn't have a girlfriend!

[billoetjen]

Originally Posted by DeivoxCarnal

Hahah, excellent point, thank god my drummer doesn't have a girlfriend!

Here's the riddle:

How does a drummer get a girlfriend?


Lemme know when you figure it out.

[DeivoxCarnal]

I give up, but looking for an answer I found this joke:

what do you call a drummer who breaks up w/ his girlfriend?

HOMELESS!