Bummed out by using the PA

dbase · #1 07-19-2011, 08:13 PM

My band has some big gigs coming up, one is topside on a riverboat. Its been very hot here in NJ lately and the band wants to run everything thru the PA instead of hauling around all the backline gear. For a gig outside on a boat I would bring my entire rig but the PA is 1000 watts. with 3 15's Thought it would be a no brainer, just walk in with my bass and plug into the PA. but, Even at 1000 watts it sounds to muddy and doesnt have the feel of my cabs. They should have gotten a DJ if we have to mike our gear. Thats all .. just wanted to vent.

**peledog** · #2 07-19-2011, 08:21 PM

I dislike not having control over my tone. The guitars are always too loud in the monitors. And when I can hear myself, the guitarists whine that the monitors are too boomy.

They claim they never touch the volume on the amps, but they always start low with the volume knob on the guitars and keep turning up as the show goes on. Guitarists suck.

That is all. LOL

Interceptor · #3 07-19-2011, 09:37 PM

I'm usually in PA.

At first I hated it.

I'm liking it these days. The key for me was getting happy with "the package" I hand off. That, and we use one sound person / producer everywhere. She knows our desires, and is forward enough to whoop any engineer into conformity in quick order.

We keep her very very happy.

will33 · #4 07-19-2011, 09:38 PM

You need small rigs for your stage volume and let the PA do tbe rest, big,loud backline messes up a good FOH mix. Just know that it sounds better out front blended together than it sounds where you are standing and if it doesn't the best thing you can do about it is order a dirty vodka martini.

seanm · #5 07-19-2011, 10:27 PM

I would bring a small combo even if you go in the PA. And I like going through the PA. A PA can be really good for bass assuming you have subs. If you don't have subs... well.... that is all.

MNAirHead · #6 07-19-2011, 10:30 PM

band is only as good as the pa... and the pa driver.

dbase · #7 07-20-2011, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

You need small rigs for your stage volume and let the PA do tbe rest, big,loud backline messes up a good FOH mix. Just know that it sounds better out front blended together than it sounds where you are standing and if it doesn't the best thing you can do about it is order a dirty vodka martini.

Using the PA has changed our "sound". I dont like it but I have to get used to accepting this sound, but its hard. I will take your advise, before we play I'll have a "Barcardi and Cranberry" ... should sound much better.

modulusman · #8 07-20-2011, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbase

My band has some big gigs coming up, one is topside on a riverboat. Its been very hot here in NJ lately and the band wants to run everything thru the PA instead of hauling around all the backline gear. For a gig outside on a boat I would bring my entire rig but the PA is 1000 watts. with 3 15's Thought it would be a no brainer, just walk in with my bass and plug into the PA. but, Even at 1000 watts it sounds to muddy and doesnt have the feel of my cabs. They should have gotten a DJ if we have to mike our gear. Thats all .. just wanted to vent.

Sounds like the PA is a POS. A 1000 watt PA is not big enough for anything more than vocals /acoustic guitar. Unless there are subwoofers you need an amp onstage.

john m · #9 07-20-2011, 06:43 AM

Unless you have your own monitor mix AND the PA has subs,

get a small (12") combo that you like and place it as close to ear level as possible. I've used a JBL, powered G2 on a stand
before I purchased my Markbass combo.

john m

klejst · #10 07-20-2011, 07:10 AM

The biggest thing I hate about using a PA at gig's is they always tell me (and my band) to turn down!

PA support is alright, however my rig can handle without it when needed.

DWBass · #11 07-20-2011, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klejst

The biggest thing I hate about using a PA at gig's is they always tell me (and my band) to turn down!

PA support is alright, however my rig can handle without it when needed.

Band stage volume can be a big issue if folks don't know how to turn down. That is what the PA is for. Let it do it's job. I'm always after my drummer to stop wailing away on his snare! But my band plays r&b, soul, funk and jazz. I understand some rock bands just go for it! But if there is a PA, there's no need for insane stage volume!

will33 · #12 07-20-2011, 08:38 AM

If it's a full pa with subs let it do the work. If there's no subs it sounds better to use a bass rig to play the room. Where's this 1000 watts coming from and how big a room/how many people need to get covered? What type of music?

SurferJoe46 · #13 07-20-2011, 08:43 AM

I tried an in-house PA and hated it. Typically I only use my own stand-alone rig as do the guitarists.

Any horns, keyboards and vocal use our own PA system, so we never use any provided gear at the venue, not even back lines that are there (and badly abused).

One thing I cannot understand is the hardcore hate for side-by-side cabs (especially bass cabs) when it's obvious that PAs are not stacked on top of each other, so there's gotta be filtering and waves cancellation from them. Right?

Why are multiple bass cabs so bad and yet PA cabs are OK? Riddle me that one.

I/we just last weekend did a sound check for a Barnyard BBQ coming up July 30th, with a full band/full rehearsal and I'm pushing 1200 Watts and it fills the whole 40 acres just fine.

We're set up in front of two 250,000 gallon water tanks on top of a 30-foot knoll, firing into a small valley, and we fill the whole area really well.

If I really wanted to PA that gig (I don't) - it'd have to come from a second mortgage on my house to pay for it all. No way.

allexcosta · #14 07-20-2011, 08:46 AM

Many people make the mistake of trying to put kick and bass into a "top only" PA.

A top only PA is mostly a "vocal and keys PA". Don't expect real low end reproduction from a pair of 12's in poles. It won't happen. And you're sucking clarity from the vocals when making those little speakers work harder than they were designed for.

Kick and bass need strong amps and subs. Not JRX subs, but real subs with real wattage handling.

gflowers · #15 07-20-2011, 08:47 AM

If you're all going to go direct, you've got to have a good PA including subs and some serious power to handle the dynamic range of a band. In-ear monitors also help. We run everything direct and we all use IEM's. We run 18-inch QSC subs and a total of 5,000 watts with a 6 way monitor mix. It sounds great out front and everything is crystal clear in my ear buds. We play a lot of private gigs where volume is an issue and running direct has allowed us to be able to play these gigs without the usual volume battles that come with backlines and wedges. But with 5K watts, we can also play large clubs and out door gigs without a problem. Good PA and good IEM's are expensive, but so are stage amps, power amps, wedges, etc.

will33 · #16 07-20-2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I tried an in-house PA and hated it. Typically I only use my own stand-alone rig as do the guitarists.

Any horns, keyboards and vocal use our own PA system, so we never use any provided gear at the venue, not even back lines that are there (and badly abused).

One thing I cannot understand is the hardcore hate for side-by-side cabs (especially bass cabs) when it's obvious that PAs are not stacked on top of each other, so there's gotta be filtering and waves cancellation from them. Right?

Why are multiple bass cabs so bad and yet PA cabs are OK? Riddle me that one.

I/we just last weekend did a sound check for a Barnyard BBQ coming up July 30th, with a full band/full rehearsal and I'm pushing 1200 Watts and it fills the whole 40 acres just fine.

We're set up in front of two 250,000 gallon water tanks on top of a 30-foot knoll, firing into a small valley, and we fill the whole area really well.

If I really wanted to PA that gig (I don't) - it'd have to come from a second mortgage on my house to pay for it all. No way.

Dispersion is the reason you shouldn't put cabs side by side. PA cabs are spread apart to cover a wide area and provide a stereo image. You don't get cancellations if they are placed more than 2 wavelengths apart at the lowest frequency they'll be reproducing which they usually are, or should be. The mistake most people make is separating the subs on either side of the stage, they should be clustered in one spot so they don't cancel each other in the lows. You can separate them if you can place them 56 or more feet apart (2 wavelengths). Same rule applies to your bass cabs.

Bill Fitzmaurices forum has a section on proper placement of subs that's a very informative read on stuff like this, it's helped me get the most out of my PA. The result is a full, professional sound as opposed to just "decent".

dannybuoy · #17 07-20-2011, 11:44 AM

Muddy sound? By any chance did you plug a passive bass straight into the line input on the mixer? It's better to run the bass either through a DI box or a buffered tuner or effects pedal to send a low impedance output to the mixer. I recommend checking out the VT Bass pedal!