Cab coatings explained - sort of

[redstaraudio]

There have been several threads where people have had questions about spray-on or paint-on coatings for cabs. It can be complicated and so we thought we'd post some DIY info for everyone based on our experiences.

Before we start, we'll say this: we have personally, in our shop, used every type of coating that we will list here. That doesn't mean we've used every coating known to man. It also doesn't mean we know *everything* about them, but honestly, we probably know a lot more than we ever wanted to learn. Anyone else can add info as they see fit. If this is not an appropriate thread for this forum, no problem - please move accordingly.

In the coatings world there are evaporative (ex. latex paint, spray paint) and cured coatings. In the cab world, you only want cured...

Cured coatings: basically two types: those that essentially cure (become hard) and evaporate off some of their weight, and those that cure without any major evaporation. An example of those that cure AND evaporate would be clear polyurethane wood finishes, and Duratex. Those that don't would be most any kind of commercial bedliner, any kind of DIY bedliner that uses an activator, and any kind of proprietary coating systems used by high-end speaker cab manufacturing.

Pretty much EVERY coating you could use would be a type of polyurethane. What makes them different is HOW they cure, and HOW they are/can be applied. The first part, how they cure, greatly affects how they can be applied, and it is also the biggest difference in their overall durability.

[redstaraudio]

Duratex (Acrytech Inc)

Pros:
Single-part coating, very easy-to-use coating for the DIY cab builder. Roll it on or use a texture (hopper) gun. Self-priming, the liquids evaporate off and it cures over several days (dry to touch in about an hour warm weather) using humidity in the air. Multiple coats make it more durable, and you can do all sorts of cool texture effects. Relatively affordable, no bad smells or VOCs, no need for masks or protective gear, cleans up with soap and water. Can be easily sanded down if necessary.

Cons:
Probably the least "durable" of the four coatings we'll discuss. By durable, the standard we're using is a commercially available truck bedliner (ex. LineX or Rhino). It will hold up much better than paint. Has moderate scratch and scuff resistance.

Notes:
Duratex is a good product for a lot of reasons. It's only "problem" is that there's no free lunch in life. NOBODY in the world makes a gallon of stuff with no fumes, no pot life problems, that cleans up with soap and water, and can be applied in your driveway that will hold up like a bedliner. So if you want a bedliner durable coating, you have to pay for it.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by redstaraudio

Duratex (Acrytech Inc)

Pros:
Single-part coating, very easy-to-use coating for the DIY cab builder. Roll it on or use a texture (hopper) gun. Self-priming, the liquids evaporate off and it cures over several days (dry to touch in about an hour warm weather) using humidity in the air. Multiple coats make it more durable, and you can do all sorts of cool texture effects. Relatively affordable, no bad smells or VOCs, no need for masks or protective gear, cleans up with soap and water. Can be easily sanded down if necessary.

Cons:
Probably the least "durable" of the four coatings we'll discuss. By durable, the standard we're using is a commercially available truck bedliner (ex. LineX or Rhino). It will hold up much better than paint. Has moderate scratch and scuff resistance.

Notes:
Duratex is a good product for a lot of reasons. It's only "problem" is that there's no free lunch in life. NOBODY in the world makes a gallon of stuff with no fumes, no pot life problems, that cleans up with soap and water, and can be applied in your driveway that will hold up like a bedliner. So if you want a bedliner durable coating, you have to pay for it.

pay as in pay someone to do it or as in expensive to buy......id be interested in finding out which gives the most durable result that can be done at home without spending big bux on spray guns.....

[redstaraudio]

Low-Pressure Bedliner Systems (ex. Scorpion, Grizzly, etc)

Pros
Cure using an accelerator (activator) to allow greater application thicknesses and strength. Good or very good resistance to chemicals, impact damage, scratches, abrasion, etc. Good lifespan, moderate resistance to UV yellowing. Some color choices. Can be applied by roller, in some cases, and by hopper gun or texture guns. This is why it's called "low pressure". Someone with some spraying equipment and skills can spray a cab with only moderate cost and complexity. Moderate VOCs and fume/chemical hazards.

Cons
Average or below-average cure times (usually 1 hour to touch, several hours for any duty, several days to full cure). Generally, can't be resprayed if there is a problem in the mix - must be sanded down to respray. Average cosmetics, usually thicker "rougher" texture than high-end commercial bedliners. Moderately expensive, usually $100+ for a full cab not counting any spray equipment. Messy to clean up, must use Zylene or Tolene or similar.

Notes:
This is generally the stuff you'd buy off of eBay that comes in 2-3 cans depending on the system. It's pretty tough when measured and mixed well and applied as instructed. Can get a pretty good result if you have any experience with spray guns or equipment. It's not *as good* as a commerial bedliner, but it's pretty close at a better price.

[redstaraudio]

High-Pressure bedliner systems (LineX, Rhino, etc.)

Pros:
The true "plural" systems, they are very durable, very tough, the "gold standard" that the others are judged against. Superior elasticity, tensile strength and abrasion resistance due to a low friction coeffecient. Very good cosmetics when applied by a knowledgeable operator. Can create a monolithic coating that actually contributes to the overall cab strength. Cure cycle is almost non-existant: these systems snap-cure or "kick" in 4-7 seconds based on blending and are easily handled within 20-30 minutes, fully cured in a matter of hours in normal conditions. They are miracles of chemistry.

Cons:
Very expensive to shoot, both in raw chemical costs and equipment costs (gun/pump systems start at $20k and go up quickly to $35k+ for commercial bedliner shops). The RAW product cost, wholesale, for a typical 4x10 cab is close to $100, and that's not counting any labor, facilities, etc. Product comes out FAST and HOT and it takes a really skilled operator to spray a cab well (very different than a truck bed). You get one shot - what goes on is what you get. Don't like it? Too bad, it ain't coming off! Very hazardous, don't want to be near it, don't want to breath it.

Notes:
What everybody wants but doesn't want to pay for. When a spray shop tells you it's $175-$225 to spray a cab, you'll think you heard them wrong and will ask them to repeat a few times before it sinks in. YOU MUST PRIME YOUR CAB BEFORE SHOOTING!!!!!! The heat and pressure of the coating when sprayed will vaporize moisture in the wood (any wood, don't bother thinking "your special magical baltic birch" is any different, cause it's not, it's just like ours and everyone elses) and you'll get pinholes/blisters/craters in the coating surface, which will RUIN the cosmetics. Must use oil-based or polyester-based primers, 2-4 coats for good results.

[redstaraudio]

Proprietary systems (OEM only)

Pros:
Best blends of durability, hardness, and especially cosmetics for cabs. Applied only by OEMs using specialized forumulations for sound industry or industrial use. NOT BEDLINER PRODUCT, NOT BEDLINER GUNS. Cosmetics are dramatically improved over even the best bedliner system application because of optimized spray patterns and gun hardware.

Cons:
You can't get them or get access to them without being an OEM. And no, once more for the record, it's NOT a bedliner and it's NOT LineX. Same health and chemical hazards as bedliner product, even more expensive if you can believe it, only offset by quantity of scale and OEM volumes.

Notes:
When you see a cab with a proprietary system next to a bedliner-system cab, the difference is obvious. The bedliner systems are tough as nails, but tight and uniform textures and coating thicknesses are incredibly difficult at those pressures and formulations. OEM proprietary systems give the same overall durability, but with an application that looks almost like a laminate. This is the #1 difference between cab manufacturers that offer polymer spray coatings on their cabs - bedliner (commercial shop applied) vs. proprietary.

[Rick Auricchio]

Thanks for a great summary. Mods, perhaps this should be sticky (no pun intended!)

[vene-nemesis]

What exactly means "proprietary" and how do you get them if we cant get them?

[rpsands]

Any idea what Dr. Bass, LDS and Avatar use?

Avatar claims a "Line-X" coating, Dr. Bass uses a "hybrid polyurethane/polyurea elastomer coating applied at 240 with a tensile strength of 2500 lbs. psi, making them virtually indestructible" and I'm not sure what LDS uses (but it set me back 50 bucks for my cabinet, if that tells you anything).

And what do you use? Is yours an OEM coating or a commercial bedliner? The texture looks very very nice, so I'm assuming the latter.

[Rick Auricchio]

The proprietary systems are designed for high-volume companies to use.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

Mods, perhaps this should be sticky (no pun intended!)

My thoughts exactly. I'll second that...

MM

[redstaraudio]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Any idea what Dr. Bass, LDS and Avatar use?

Avatar claims a "Line-X" coating, Dr. Bass uses a "hybrid polyurethane/polyurea elastomer coating applied at 240 with a tensile strength of 2500 lbs. psi, making them virtually indestructible" and I'm not sure what LDS uses (but it set me back 50 bucks for my cabinet, if that tells you anything).

And what do you use? Is yours an OEM coating or a commercial bedliner? The texture looks very very nice, so I'm assuming the latter.

We do use a proprietary system. There are several proprietary coating systems in use. They are all very similar chemically to the bedliner products, only with slight modifications usually to make them harder (more scratch resistant) with a resultant decrease in heavy impact resistance.

We can't comment on what those companies use, other than to say that the companies that *we* know of that use proprietary systems are not in that list. If those companies do use bedliner-type systems, we are not implying that they are inferior products. But there are inherent limitations to those systems when used on commercial products like speaker cabs as we described.

[rpsands]

Welp, I can understand your tack on that Maybe the other cab companies that use bedliner stuff (schroeder, dr. bass, lds, avatar) will chime in and say something about what they use at some point.

[redstaraudio]

Actually there is one more thing we should discuss/reveal, and that is the phrase "virtually indestructible".

There is no system that we know of (ours included) that is indestructible. And depending on what you do to it, it may not be "virtually indestructible" either. Kick the back of one of our cabs with your boot enough times and you'll eventually scuff it. Keep kicking it with rocks and grit on your boot, and eventually you'll scratch it. Ram it with a road case full of PA equipment and you eventually gouge it. Let it slam around in the back of your trailer a few dozen nights a month and eventually you take a chunk out of it down to the wood. And if you EVER see a picture of a cab without corners on it, run the other way, unless the maker guarantees it's cut from solid kryptonite.

Get the picture? ALL cabs will wear, including ours. The difference is how long will they take it before showing it? One of the biggest complaints we heard was "I bought it and the first week I got a big ding in the vinyl". Our goal was a coating system that looked "as good" as the best tolex/vinyl in terms of texture and grain, and was "as durable" as the best coating, which is the LineX stuff. We achieved it, but it's not indestructible, just really REALLY tough!

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Thank You, a great thread.

Definately has its place here and perhaps with a few selected (mods?) links to the actual resellers, people could better understand why and how the process is so damn expensive.

"It's just paint, why is it so expensive" is most probably the comment that can be heard on daily (hourly?) basis.

Regards
Sam

[vene-nemesis]

Is this done to cabs that have that thing that looks like a carpet or tweed?

[billfitzmaurice]

A note about DuraTex.
While not as durable as 2 part systems it's still very good, that's why it's used by Carvin and many other manufacturers. The catch is that it only reaches full strength when heat cured. Manufacturers do so in a heat room, but DIYers can do so in the back yard, using the sun and some clear plastic to create their own mini Greenhouse curing station.

As for scratch and dent resistance, that's mainly a property of how thick the coating is applied. Using their high build formula and a hopper gun you can get it a good 3/16" thick, and if properly cured it's almost bullet-proof. It's tougher than the wood beneath it, but to take advantage of that toughness you can't just roll on a thin layer.

[rpatter]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Any idea what Dr. Bass, LDS and Avatar use?
... and I'm not sure what LDS uses (but it set me back 50 bucks for my cabinet, if that tells you anything).

LDS farms it out to a local company that uses a proprietary system. That's why it only cost you $50! I think Don calls it bedliner because the finish is similar and people are more familiar with the term "bedliner" than with whatever the proprietary finish goes by.

Ralf

[Bassorama57]

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

Thanks for a great summary. Mods, perhaps this should be sticky (no pun intended!)

+1 Great summary of an expensive and challenging process.

[redstaraudio]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

A note about DuraTex.
While not as durable as 2 part systems it's still very good, that's why it's used by Carvin and many other manufacturers. The catch is that it only reaches full strength when heat cured. Manufacturers do so in a heat room, but DIYers can do so in the back yard, using the sun and some clear plastic to create their own mini Greenhouse curing station.

Bill is right that several other manufacturers use Duratex under different product names, although I think that Carvin is the only one that uses it for bass or guitar cabs commercially (I very well may be wrong on that).

Actually, it does not require heat-cure processes to fully cure, which is a benefit for the DIY crowd. If you bake a cab in the Texas sun (like we used to do) you can frequently do a knockdown sanding and recoat on a Duratex cab in 45 minutes. Leave it in the sun for about a day and it's pretty much "baked". The reason for the heat-cure lines is so a manufacturer like Carvin can get the cab into packaging within 4 hours of the spray booth. But even if it was painted in an air-conditioned shop, it would still fully cure in a few days.

As I've said before, Duratex is a very good product especially considering the ease of use and price point. Almost anyone can get a good result with basically no training. But it's not a bedliner.

My point of this thread was to "demystify" the different coatings especially since they look alike and are often cross-referenced, even though they are very different in terms of chemistry, cost, and results.