Cab Combination Question

MycooLeeyun · #1 10-07-2011, 04:00 PM

Hey,
I'm looking to improve my sound in the band setting. I play through a GK 700rbii which I'm probably going to be upgrading to a GK Fusion 550 or 1050. I currently run through an Avatar B410 neo cab and was contemplating on getting a new cab. I was thinking that I could either get a "better" 4x10 cab to replace my avatar or just add a single 15" cabinet. I play 5 string basses and thought a 15" might help bring that low B through nicely. What do you all suggest? Is it okay to pair up a 4x10 with a 15"? My sound is pretty good as it is but I definitely see room for improvement.

Thanks in advance!

will33 · #2 10-07-2011, 04:15 PM

Find a cab you really like the sound of, then get a second one just like it. Using matching speakers works put better than mixing them and a 410+115 is a particularly bad combination. The 15 will run out of gas while the 410 could still give you more output. Also, the size of the speaker has nothing to do with how low it can play.

AMPS FAQ!! Info on OHMS, Allsize RIGS-OverUnderPowerCabs DIY TechTalk-Links

MycooLeeyun · #3 10-07-2011, 04:28 PM

Thanks for that info.. It looks like my better option would just be to upgrade my cab to a better 410. I'm not looking to have 2 4x10's right now as I don't find it necessary.

billfitzmaurice · #4 10-07-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MycooLeeyun

It looks like my better option would just be to upgrade my cab to a better 410.

Considering that Avatar uses a premium OEM version of the 2510 driver that's not going to be an easy task, let alone inexpensive. If you look at anyone's 4x10 neo cab loaded with an Eminence driver chances are they're also 2510 variants, which means they won't work any better, though most are far more expensive. And IMO the 2510 is the benchmark neo ten.

MycooLeeyun · #5 10-07-2011, 08:13 PM

That's good to know. If I was going to upgrade I was going to go all the way. I was looking at Epifani, Bergantino, Aguilar, etc. Maybe just upgrading my amp for now is the most efficient option. Thanks a lot for your input

billfitzmaurice · #6 10-07-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MycooLeeyun

That's good to know. If I was going to upgrade I was going to go all the way. I was looking at Epifani, Bergantino, Aguilar, etc.

Care to guess what they use for neo tens?

walterw · #7 10-07-2011, 09:08 PM

all signs point to a second identical cab as your most effective upgrade path, although a more powerful amp will net you some headroom, too.

georgestrings · #8 10-07-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MycooLeeyun

Thanks for that info.. It looks like my better option would just be to upgrade my cab to a better 410. I'm not looking to have 2 4x10's right now as I don't find it necessary.

Sounds to me like a better cab is your best bet - I've played the 700rb-II thru plenty of quality cabs, and it always sounded great - with power and low end to spare...

Inversely, I've always found Avatar cabs to be pretty "meh" sounding... Plenty of top name pros have toured with the 700rb-II, but the same can't be said for Avatar cabs - I'm just sayin'...

- georgestrings

Rockin Mike · #9 10-07-2011, 10:28 PM

Consider the Hartke HyDrive 4x10.
They're cheap, they're light, they're neo, they can handle 1000 watts.

I have 2 HyDrive 1x12 cabs. Not exactly the same animal, but regarding the HyDrive speakers, I hate the sound of them when I'm standing in front of them, but darn it if they don't slice into the mix like buttah. You have to gig them and walk out into the audience to really hear them.

The old Hartke all-aluminum speakers are too harsh for me, but the HyDrives are half-aluminum and half-paper cones. To my ear they find a nice middle ground, edgier than paper cones and not as robot-special-effect sounding as the old all-aluminum ones.

No tech training or graphs here, just ears.

somegeezer · #10 10-07-2011, 10:44 PM

You could pair off your head with GK cabs and make use of the bi-amping?
Saying that though, I use laney cabs and have been able to get a great tone I love without any tweeter control. My tone is much more mid-growly sounding.

MycooLeeyun · #11 10-07-2011, 11:30 PM

I think I'm going to start off by upgrading my amp. I've never even understood the bi-amping feature on the GK's. Thanks everyone for your input.

Joe Louvar · #12 10-08-2011, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MycooLeeyun

I think I'm going to start off by upgrading my amp. I've never even understood the bi-amping feature on the GK's. Thanks everyone for your input.

The GK bi-amp section has an adjustable crossover with two separate volumes and it works quite well with for example a 2x10 over a 1x15.

will33 · #13 10-08-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Louvar

The GK bi-amp section has an adjustable crossover with two separate volumes and it works quite well with for example a 2x10 over a 1x15.

Not his gk. The 800rb is the only one I'd consider a real, good, biamping amp. The rest all just have a separate little 50 watt amp to power the little tweeter separately, that's all. The same is accomplished by any bass cab that has an l-pad adjustment on the back.

And the 15+210 is a really poor choice for biamping. A single 6" or 8" is the best choice for carrying the mids/highs with a single woofer or 2 small woofers on the bottom. More woofers on the bottom, use 2 of the little midrange speakers. It comes down to spl matching and dispersion.

Joe Louvar · #14 10-08-2011, 09:33 AM

Ok that explains a lot, I use to run GK800RB’s into 2x10s over 1x15s and it was awesome but big and heavy - thank you very much for the info Will.

will33 · #15 10-08-2011, 09:54 AM

Don't get me wrong, the 210/15 can work, you're just carrying around more cab than you need for carrying mids/highs. Balancing the separate volume knobs can fix the sound, just not the size.

The 800rb's 100 watt top combined with 200-300 watts lows makes sense. It's also another one of my "favorite amps". The only drawback being the high amp is 8ohm minimum. Usually not a big deal until you get to big cabs that require 2 mids. Most the good ones come in 8ohms although a few 4's and 16's are out there.

Ric5 · #16 10-08-2011, 09:58 AM

You probably have enough bass amp and bass cabinet. You need pa support.

The way to really make a gigging band sound better is a good powerful clean pa system with big 18" subs, mids and horns. You need planty of overhead to keep it clean and mike EVERYTHING or use DIs or both.

Also look at in-ear monitors to reduce stage volume and the make sure all parties in the band are heard by everyone on stage.

will33 · #17 10-08-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Louvar

Ok that explains a lot, I use to run GK800RB’s into 2x10s over 1x15s and it was awesome but big and heavy - thank you very much for the info Will.

If you wanted to, you could add a closedback 6 to your 15 cab if there's room, or build a 6 into a little sealed topbox to sit on top. Either way, you wouldn't have to figure out a crossover, just wire it up to a separate jack to plug into your high amp. Either would do the job your 210 is doing at 1/4 the size and weight.......something to consider.

Joe Louvar · #18 10-08-2011, 10:22 AM

Thanks Will. Before I downsize to my GK MB115s, I use to have three 800RB’s and I loved them - awesome amp. I bought my first one about 30yrs ago and the other two shortly afterwards and I sold my last one this year to my friend Kent and his son uses it now (and of course I’ve owned many other amps, cabs and combos too). Anyway, I didn’t know GK was calling amps without crossovers bi-amps - thank you for the info.

greenboy · #19 10-08-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Anyway, I didn’t know GK was calling amps without crossovers bi-amps

Uh?

Joe Louvar · #20 10-08-2011, 10:26 AM