Cab Idea

dlhughes · #1 07-07-2010, 09:12 AM

I have this idea for what I think would be a killer bass cab, but with a caveat; its external overall size.
Without going into any details about the cab itself, I can tell you that it's 4 feet tall, 20-24" wide (depending on driver complement), and 14-16" deep.
Huge, I know. But here's the kicker. This cab could make 60W thru one 12" driver put out as much acoustical power as a rig with twice the wattage...easily. A single-12 cab would be 48" tall, 18" wide, and 14" deep. But most of the volume is simply...air inside the cabinet (and the internal geometry that makes it work).
This cab could also be configured with 2x10, 1x15, or 4x8.
Though it's large in exterior dimensions, I calculated the weight of a 1x12 version at no more than about 60-65 lbs. Not too tough, right? Especially if it had back-corner casters and a 'towel-bar' handle on the back so you could tilt it back & move it around like a two-wheel hand truck.
So my question is: would something like this, given that its efficiency would be well above that of a ported or sealed cab (close to that of a folded horn, actually), be just too large & heavy to haul around? What about situations where you wouldn't have to move it much if at all, such as a 'house band' situation, or a church?

What do y'all think?

73jbass · #2 07-07-2010, 09:20 AM

Are you say that by just putting a single driver in an oversized cabinet that it will increase the output? Don't think so.

BassmanPaul · #3 07-07-2010, 09:26 AM

To work properly a cabinet has to be designed to mate with the driver you have selected. Just making a big box for a single driver is not the way. Sorry, speaker design doesn't work that way.

Paul

rpsands · #4 07-07-2010, 09:48 AM

I seem to remember you posting this before and being told it was ridiculous.

Theoretical new bass cab

This smells strongly of marketing to me.

Mr. Foxen · #5 07-07-2010, 09:55 AM

Putting speakers in quite big boxes sort of works better than cramming a speaker into a small box. Most speakers dig a big box.

Thing is, from what you are saying, doesn't sound like you have enough clue what goes on with speaker cabs to do better than the good end of commercial offerings.

mulchor · #6 07-07-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlhughes

What do y'all think?

Make it, test it, play it.

Usually the ethic on talkbass is no pics = no cab.
I'm not sure what SOP is for no cab = no cab.

The other thought that comes to mind is that high efficiency may not be as important nowadays as it used to be. OP mentions a 60W amp. That matches more or less with my old Bassman. But for the same weight and dirt cheap, my Mackie PA amp can do 20 times that.

dlhughes · #7 07-08-2010, 07:22 PM

OK...it's not the sheer size of the box that I claim will improve the efficiency...it's how the box is configured inside.
So, it's basically a combination of a folded tapered 1/4-wave tuned pipe (TQWP) and a horn loading deal...not simply a large empty box at all.
That's all the detail you're getting ;^)
I've built a prototype guitar cab on this principle, much smaller so as to be tuned to just below the 84 Hz of a low E on guitar. My guitar bud is crazy about the thing! Two 12's in it, and his 5W Valve Junior Epiphone head absolutely ROARS thru it. Big, punchy bottom-end and 'right-now' transient response. I can't help but think that if I lengthen the air column inside to 1/4-wavelength of 42 Hz (low E on bass), hence the tallness, it would definitely work. And I intend to build a prototype to test that out and compare it with a ported cab of equivalent driver complement.
I'll let y'all know how it turns out....

Rick Auricchio · #8 07-08-2010, 08:18 PM

Sounds similar to some of Bill Fitzmaurice's designs.

billfitzmaurice · #9 07-08-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

Sounds similar to some of Bill Fitzmaurice's designs.

Not similar at all. IMO there are no benefits to TQWP for electric bass.

Rick Auricchio · #10 07-08-2010, 08:38 PM

Sorry, Bill. I was thinking about one of your subs with the "nautilus-shell" spiral inside.

Tim C. · #11 07-08-2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

Sorry, Bill. I was thinking about one of your subs with the "nautilus-shell" spiral inside.

What the OP is describing is definitely not a BFM sub.

Bass_Pounder · #12 07-08-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlhughes

I have this idea for what I think would be a killer bass cab, but with a caveat; its external overall size.
Without going into any details about the cab itself, I can tell you that it's 4 feet tall, 20-24" wide (depending on driver complement), and 14-16" deep.
Huge, I know. But here's the kicker. This cab could make 60W thru one 12" driver put out as much acoustical power as a rig with twice the wattage...easily. A single-12 cab would be 48" tall, 18" wide, and 14" deep. But most of the volume is simply...air inside the cabinet (and the internal geometry that makes it work).
This cab could also be configured with 2x10, 1x15, or 4x8.
Though it's large in exterior dimensions, I calculated the weight of a 1x12 version at no more than about 60-65 lbs. Not too tough, right? Especially if it had back-corner casters and a 'towel-bar' handle on the back so you could tilt it back & move it around like a two-wheel hand truck.
So my question is: would something like this, given that its efficiency would be well above that of a ported or sealed cab (close to that of a folded horn, actually), be just too large & heavy to haul around? What about situations where you wouldn't have to move it much if at all, such as a 'house band' situation, or a church?

What do y'all think?

All that extra size just to pick up 3db efficiency ?

No thanks.................

At the cheap cost of watts now, I would rather have a manageable size cab, and a more powerful amp.

Stumbo · #13 07-08-2010, 09:06 PM

Good luck.
Post some pics when you're done. Not sure why you don't release all the details unless you're going into production.

OtterOnBass · #14 07-08-2010, 10:18 PM

I have a combo amp and a subwoofer extension cabinet that's a little smaller than your dimensions. The sub sounds awesome, gets insanely loud and isn't heavy. However, the size is cumbersome. I don't take it unless it's a special gig that needs loud or awesome (well, extra awesome).

T-Bird · #15 07-09-2010, 12:41 AM

Hi.

Unless the design of Yours offers undisputable benefits over folded horn designs and/or can be manufactured cheaper, it'll just be yet another cab design that didn't catch on.

You may able to offer the design to DIYers, but since cheap and even free plans with cut-charts are easily available, you will be "competing" with the big names like BFM.

Not an easy task, but without even trying, there can't be success.

Regards.
Sam

Matthijs · #16 07-09-2010, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

IMO there are no benefits to TQWP for electric bass.

Why's that? except for the obvious size thing?

I imagine it's hifi overkill for bass guitar, but it might add something for double bass. Although nobody playing a doghouse will want to lug something this big around.

dlhughes · #17 07-09-2010, 05:00 AM

Well, I definitely want to build one up, probably with a pair of 10's in it, just to see what comes out of it, as compared to a ported 2x10. The guitar cab I built with a shortened 'pipe' gave very, very promising results.

And I need an explanation why a TQWP wouldn't be of any benefit for bass guitar. what's the difference between gaining efficiency for small drivers in a hi-fi system, and gaining efficiency in a bass guitar system? Why, then, are folded horns of benefit for bass guitar if a TQWP is not? Hmmm....

Matthijs · #18 07-09-2010, 06:07 AM

Seems to me a TQMP has a tendency for difficult to controll resonance peaks, that would be a reason te prefer a folded horn.

How much effciëncy do you think you can gain with your design?

billfitzmaurice · #19 07-09-2010, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthijs

Why's that? except for the obvious size thing?

I imagine it's hifi overkill for bass guitar, but it might add something for double bass. Although nobody playing a doghouse will want to lug something this big around.

TQWP is no higher in sensitivity than a ported box, and most pro-sound drivers don't work well in a TQWP anyway.

chris.gotfunk · #20 07-09-2010, 06:19 AM

I think you should build it, test it and see what happens. Everyone has their own views on if this will work or not, but until you actually have one out, no one will really know.

So, go for it. All throughout the history of instruments people have innovated and it worked and it failed. But I am sure the first time someone put a tremolo on a solid body guitar, people probably thought they were mad.

If it works and catches on, you can stick your tongue out at all the people here with their infinite wisdom and expert advice

and charge them double for it!