Cab Mistake

[Gibbsalot]

Got a Markbass SA450 and an Eden 210XST 4ohm thinking I wouldn't need an extra cab in the future. Now i'm looking for more volume. Would it be best to sell the 4ohm cab and get two 8ohm ones or just get another 4 to run them both at 8. The difference is 380Watt (8ohm) vrs 500watt (4ohm). Is it worth the trouble for that extra 120watts? Thanks!

[BurningSkies]

I personally would ditch the 4ohm cab and get two 8's, rather than getting the special wiring harness to run them in series to get the 8ohm load.

[MarTONEbass]

You need a pair of 8ohm cabs or a larger 4ohm cab to run by itself. The SA450 won't run with 2 4ohm cabs.

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by Gibbsalot

Got a Markbass SA450 and an Eden 210XST 4ohm thinking I wouldn't need an extra cab in the future. Now i'm looking for more volume. Would it be best to sell the 4ohm cab and get two 8ohm ones or just get another 4 to run them both at 8. The difference is 380Watt (8ohm) vrs 500watt (4ohm). Is it worth the trouble for that extra 120watts? Thanks!

If you add another 4 ohm 210XST, the total impedance would be 2 ohms, not 8. The SA450 can't operate at 2 ohms, so you would need to find an amp that could. Which would be more expensive, probably, than selling your current 4 ohm 210XST and picking up a couple of 8 ohm versions.

The increase in volume will be very noticeable, though - not so much because of the increased wattage output of the amp as because of the increase in speaker surface area.

210XST - great cabinets, BTW! I have two myself.

[Gibbsalot]

Originally Posted by MarTONEbass

You need a pair of 8ohm cabs or a larger 4ohm cab to run by itself. The SA450 won't run with 2 4ohm cabs.

Yah, my two choices would be:
1: Sell the one 4ohm Cab to get two 8s
2: Get another 4ohm and cable harness(series) to run the two 4's at 8ohms

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by Gibbsalot

2: Get another 4ohm and cable harness(series) to run the two 4's at 8ohms

Is that safe? Or even acheivable? In addition, if running an 8ohm load, you still won't get maximum wattage from your amp! Also the SA-450 puts out 300w not 380w at 8ohms. 200w difference! Yes it's worth it.


Do yourself a favor and get 2 8ohm cabs. Don't even put 2 4ohm cabs in the equation!

[BurningSkies]

This is the sort of situation I'm always posting warnings on TB about. Loads of people buy small and medium sized cabs that are 4ohms to wring that extra wattage from their heads, but when they find the speaker area doesn’t provide enough volume, no matter how the speaker cab is rated and how much wattage is available its trouble. It’s a pain to have to sell off and re-buy cabs, it can get expensive too. Yes, there are guys who can get away with a small setup on stage and be happy with it, but most ‘rock’ players won’t be happy with a reasonably loud band with a single 12, 2x10, etc. unless they’re well monitored.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Is that safe? Or even acheivable? In addition, if running an 8ohm load, you still won't get maximum wattage from your amp! Also the SA-450 puts out 300w not 380w at 8ohms. 200w difference! Yes it's worth it.


Do yourself a favor and get 2 8ohm cabs. Don't even put 2 4ohm cabs in the equation!

Er, as long as he has 2 4ohm cabs wired correctly in series, it's not a hazzard to the amp. Of course, you then only get a 8ohm load, and you're "not gittin' all yer watts" but its safe.

I personally would still do two 8ohm cabs...

[BassmanPaul]

As I see it the problem lies with MarkBass and other manufacturers who limit players to a 4Ω minimum. Stereo power amps have been mostly 2Ω stable for the last twenty or so years. Why not bass equipment?? Running a pair of 4Ω cabinets is not an unreasonable expectation.

Paul

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

Er, as long as he has 2 4ohm cabs wired correctly in series, it's not a hazzard to the amp. Of course, you then only get a 8ohm load, and you're "not gittin' all yer watts" but its safe.

I personally would still do two 8ohm cabs...

Running two cabinets in series can cause interaction between the crossovers especially if they are of disparate makes.

Paul

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

As I see it the problem lies with MarkBass and other manufacturers who limit players to a 4Ω minimum. Stereo power amps have been mostly 2Ω stable for the last twenty or so years. Why not bass equipment?? Running a pair of 4Ω cabinets is not an unreasonable expectation.

Paul

I think it's probably to accomodate the cabs that dominate the market which are mostly 8ohm cabs. If 4ohm cabs were the norm, I'm sure most bass amps would be designed to run safely at 2 ohms.

[babebambi]

switch to 2x 8ohm

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by DWBass

I think it's probably to accomodate the cabs that dominate the market which are mostly 8ohm cabs. If 4ohm cabs were the norm, I'm sure most bass amps would be designed to run safely at 2 ohms.

The standard impedance of most drivers is 8Ω. Any twin speaker cabinet using them will mostly be 4Ω. as all my 2x10s are. Bass amps SHOULD be able to handle 2Ω loads.

Paul

[countrybass007]

That's why SWR, Mesa, and some of the other manufacturers offer their cabs in 8ohm and 4ohm versions. I always use the two 4ohm cabs I have only as solo cabs.

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

The standard impedance of most drivers is 8Ω. Any twin speaker cabinet using them will mostly be 4Ω. as all my 2x10s are. Bass amps SHOULD be able to handle 2Ω loads.

Paul

I agree that 2 ohms minimum seems to be the standard in public address, automotive, and most other areas where amps are used. For whatever reason, 4 ohm minimum is normal for bass heads. IMO, the industry has focused around small 8 ohm cabinets that are anticipated to be used in pairs (like a 210 or a 112), or around larger cabinets that are anticipated to be used alone - like the quintessential 4-ohm 410.

I wonder why that is.

[Gibbsalot]

Thanks all for the input! Think i'm choosing the route of selling the 4ohm and getting two 8ohms.
Infact...I used Talkbass for info on choosing a bass but not the cab, doh!

[Whitbass]

of course if you would need a smaller practice cab, etc, you could keep the 4 ohm 2x10 and pick up a 4ohm 4x10.......
something reputable like Bergantino AE410 or HS410, GK Neo, Eden, SWR, etc
The AE410 is great and fairly light.........
of course 2) 8 ohm 2x10 cabs can work nicely too

listen to everything you can before you buy.........good luck

[BBEgo]

I can't believe these companies even make 4 ohm 2x10 cabinets. It almost always ends up with the end user being dissatisfied. The difference in power and volume between 4 and 8 ohm cabs is not significant enough to even make it an option. I could see 410 cabs being made in 4 ohm configurations, but not 210s.

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by BBEgo

I can't believe these companies even make 4 ohm 2x10 cabinets. It almost always ends up with the end user being dissatisfied. The difference in power and volume between 4 and 8 ohm cabs is not significant enough to even make it an option. I could see 410 cabs being made in 4 ohm configurations, but not 210s.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 4Ω 2x10. It's the obvious result of using a pair of standard 8Ω drivers. It's got nothing to do with the difference in loudness between 8 and 4Ω cabinets. I chose 4Ω because all my amplifiers are stable at 2Ω. I've been running a pre/power rig since the Sixties so 4Ω cabinets was a natural choice.

Paul

[mulchor]

Going from 380W to 500W is a small difference only at the top end of the dial.

I know big numbers on power has a tim-the-toolman sort of appeal. But really have trouble imagining the band where 125dB isn't loud enough and you just gotta have 126dB.