Cabinet Distortion

[duggan_nugget]

Hi guys,

New comer here.

I'm actually not a bassist, but the bassist in my band isn't really into doing gear research himself (he's a vocalist at heart).

We've got a BX4500H head and a Hartke VX410 cab, the set up sounds ok, but when we try to get it up to practice levels it starts to distort the lower notes. After looking up the specs of them I have an idea why, 450W amp 400W cab.

My question is, if our bassist were to get the VX112 cabinet and stick it in the mix, would we get less / no distortion from the cabinet? I'm a drummer/guitarist so excuse my lack of knowledge in the area seeing as guitar cabinets are usually twice the wattage of the heads, or more!

Thanks in advance.

[B-string]

A) The Behringer head will be lucky to put out 450 watts.
B) The Behringer could be bad.
C) The cab is damaged.

Most likely is "B".
Try the head with a different cab or a different amp with the cab (yes a guitar amp will work ).

[fdeck]

Power ratings of speakers tell you how much power the voice coils can take before they burn up. They don't tell you how much signal the speaker can handle before distorting, especially in the lower registers. The latter amount could be considerably less than the rated power, especially if you've dialed in a bass-heavy EQ, or if the amp has a "scooped" voicing.

If that bass rig can't keep up with "practice levels," then all of you have probably already damaged your hearing. That's just not a reasonable price to pay for being in a band. I would normally suggest educating the drummer and guitarist on how to play with intensity at moderate volume levels. It's simply a matter of skill.

[duggan_nugget]

Ahhh yes we are well aware of the dangers of being in a loud band. We all use ear plugs / muffs constantly and turn down when we take them out to talk. It doesn't help we are in a small concrete room...

[B-string]

Originally Posted by fdeck

Power ratings of speakers tell you how much power the voice coils can take before they burn up. They don't tell you how much signal the speaker can handle before distorting, especially in the lower registers. The latter amount could be considerably less than the rated power, especially if you've dialed in a bass-heavy EQ, or if the amp has a "scooped" voicing.

If that bass rig can't keep up with "practice levels," then all of you have probably already damaged your hearing. That's just not a reasonable price to pay for being in a band. I would normally suggest educating the drummer and guitarist on how to play with intensity at moderate volume levels. It's simply a matter of skill.

[Rim Shot]

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by duggan_nugget

After looking up the specs of them I have an idea why, 450W amp 400W cab.\.

Moot.
AMPS FAQ!! Info on OHMS, Allsize RIGS-OverUnderPowerCabs DIY TechTalk-Links

I'm actually not a bassist, but the bassist in my band isn't really into doing gear research himself (he's a vocalist at heart).

Get a real bassplayer. It's not the least important instrument in the band, to be relegated to someone who can't play anything else. It's the most important instrument. Just as no house can be built without a solid foundation neither can any band sound good without a solid bottom end.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Moot.
AMPS FAQ!! Info on OHMS, Allsize RIGS-OverUnderPowerCabs DIY TechTalk-Links
Get a real bassplayer. It's not the least important instrument in the band, to be relegated to someone who can't play anything else. It's the most important instrument. Just as no house can be built without a solid foundation neither can any band sound good without a solid bottom end.

NICE I like it

[cheezewiz]

The bottom line is, you've got some low end gear that you're trying to push to its maximum. That usually doesn't work out too well.

Roll off some low end. Turn down. However, you can only polish a turd so much, and no matter how much polish you put on it, it's still a turd.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by duggan_nugget

Ahhh yes we are well aware of the dangers of being in a loud band. We all use ear plugs / muffs constantly and turn down when we take them out to talk. It doesn't help we are in a small concrete room...

You don't see a problem with what you are doing here? Really, loud does not make you any better, just suck loudly, only playing softly will let you improve.

[will33]

Doesn't it seem like pissing in the wind to be playing so loud you have to wear earplugs to quiet it down when you could get the same result by playing at levels that don't need the plugs? After all, what good is all that volume if you can't hear it?

And +1 to getting a real bass player, it makes a huge difference. So does real musicians on any other instrument/rig........like ones that don't need to blast the room out to "get that tone, man".

[will33]

FWIW, my guitarist isn't just a guitarist, he's a musician. He runs a Paul, a jcm2000 and a 412 and has great tone. Our stage volume is always well under control, we can all hear ourselves great with small monitors and can all sing on pitch without straining. The end result is great sound..........he's 27, what's your excuse?


Musicians make music, players just......well.....play. Playing is for kids.......man up.

[will33]

Originally Posted by cheezewiz

you can only polish a turd so much, and no matter how much polish you put on it, it's still a turd.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[duggan_nugget]

Originally Posted by will33

Doesn't it seem like pissing in the wind to be playing so loud you have to wear earplugs to quiet it down when you could get the same result by playing at levels that don't need the plugs? After all, what good is all that volume if you can't hear it?

And +1 to getting a real bass player, it makes a huge difference. So does real musicians on any other instrument/rig........like ones that don't need to blast the room out to "get that tone, man".

Even playing softly, two guitars, a bass, a vocalist and a drum kit will kill your ears. Might as well turn it up to 11.
That said, we do play softly when the piece calls for it, just like we play loudly when the piece calls for it. The bottom line is, playing heavy music requires a heavy sound.

I'm the first to admit we need a real bassist, but living in a small town has its disadvantages. We had one, he quit and we were left in the lurch. Having no other options, a singer we knew from a different band I was in was keen to learn and picked our fairly complicated music up pretty quickly.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by duggan_nugget

Even playing softly, two guitars, a bass, a vocalist and a drum kit will kill your ears. Might as well turn it up to 11.
That said, we do play softly when the piece calls for it, just like we play loudly when the piece calls for it. The bottom line is, playing heavy music requires a heavy sound.
I'm the first to admit we need a real bassist, but living in a small town has its disadvantages. We had one, he quit and we were left in the lurch. Having no other options, a singer we knew from a different band I was in was keen to learn and picked our fairly complicated music up pretty quickly.

The point is, it does not require heavy volume. That why all those pedels and effects units are made.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by duggan_nugget

The bottom line is, playing heavy music requires a heavy sound.
.

Heavy doesn't mean loud. In my five years of monitoring levels at a major venue metal acts were no louder than most others, including country. They did tend to run louder than the Boston Pops.

[scottfeldstein]

I have to chime in on this one. I've fallen unexpectedly back into music after some years away and I've hooked up with some young guys playing very loud and heavy rock music. The music's just OK, but they're nice guys. Problem is, they play LOUD. I mean, we rehearse in a 20' square room and the drummer--one of those double kick pedal guys--actually mics his bass drum. The guitar player has a 50 or 100w 2/12 combo amp that he puts on 11 (sounds like... well, bad), and their former bass player literally had to rehearse through the Ampeg 8x10 cab they keep in the room. Had to. Smaller cabs could possibly cut it. I know, I tried with two 2x10 cabs--no way.

Everyone wears earplugs religiously. Even people in adjacent rooms must wear them. I've seen these guys go through two vocalists. They use a small PA (two 12s with horns) to monitor vocals, and there is still no way these guys can hear themselves. Half the time they're off key.

It's ridiculous. I play with them because they're fun guys and because I've been out of music so long I have no connections. I'm scanning Craig's List to find more reasonable people to play with, believe me.

If your bass rig is in proper working order, 450w through a 4x10 should be enough for any rehearsal--and darned near any stage/venue.

1. Your drummer is too loud. He should hit less hard, use lighter sticks, whatever it takes. I've rehearsed with drummers at conversation-levels. They used brushes and other tricks to be quiet. It's wonderful.

2. Your guitar player is too careless with his volume and EQ. Some of these guys think their instrument must orchestrate the entire piece of music and fill the entire sonic spectrum. They do not know how to play with others. The concept of "you play in this range, I'll play in that one" is foreign to them.

The whole idea of rehearsing so loud that you have to wear -30db ear protection to avoid going deaf is ludicrous on its face.