Cabinet placing on stage

keiththebassist · #1 01-10-2012, 10:19 AM

Hey guys and gals,

Wondering if anyone out there has experimented with using two cabs, one on each side of the stage for a fuller sound. I think the optimum is if the guitar player did the same, meaning a guitar and a bass cab on each side. Other than the long speaker cable required are there any downsides?

BassmanPaul · #2 01-10-2012, 10:23 AM

Been there did that in a trio. Worked well but when I put one of my cabinets on top of the other it worked soooo much better.

smogg · #3 01-10-2012, 10:27 AM

Does not work out that well in real life, creates a sonic mess on stage.
If you are looking for that "big" sound, run everybody FOH and use stage gear for monitoring purposes.

Philonius · #4 01-10-2012, 10:27 AM

Not a good idea. You get cancellation issues and null points. Too busy to point you to the material right now, but have a lookie......

Sundogue · #5 01-10-2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keiththebassist

Hey guys and gals,

Wondering if anyone out there has experimented with using two cabs, one on each side of the stage for a fuller sound. I think the optimum is if the guitar player did the same, meaning a guitar and a bass cab on each side. Other than the long speaker cable required are there any downsides?

Phase cancellation of your low end from separating the source of the low end. Depending on where you stand some notes may disappear altogether. Try it and walk from one side to the other and you'll hear the effect.

Even PA Subwoofers should not be separated. Even though the effect can be quite pronounced, people still do it all the time because it looks cool and it gives a ready made stand for the mid/hi cabs to sit on, on each side.

billfitzmaurice · #6 01-10-2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keiththebassist

Hey guys and gals,

Wondering if anyone out there has experimented with using two cabs, one on each side of the stage for a fuller sound.

It doesn't give a fuller sound, just the opposite. This explains why:
Live Sound: The “Power Alley” - Discussion & Solutions To The Troubling Interaction Of Subwoofer Stacks - Pro Sound Web

With guitar no problem, the wavelengths being so much shorter. But there's no need either, spreading the sound about for better dispersion is the PA's job.

MIJ-VI · #7 01-10-2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keiththebassist

Hey guys and gals,

Wondering if anyone out there has experimented with using two cabs, one on each side of the stage for a fuller sound. I think the optimum is if the guitar player did the same, meaning a guitar and a bass cab on each side. Other than the long speaker cable required are there any downsides?

It'll lead to phase cancellation of various low frequencies at different locations throughout the venue. Please keep all your cabs in one location (preferably vertical/stacked) to avoid this.

You can experiment with having your cabs at various distances from walls and/or corners if you wish.

I have learn how to type faster.

Russell L · #8 01-10-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

It doesn't give a fuller sound, just the opposite. This explains why:
Live Sound: The “Power Alley” - Discussion & Solutions To The Troubling Interaction Of Subwoofer Stacks - Pro Sound Web

With guitar no problem, the wavelengths being so much shorter. But there's no need either, spreading the sound about for better dispersion is the PA's job.

Bill, your link didn't work, for me that is. Might just be me, dunno.

tekdiver500ft · #9 01-10-2012, 04:10 PM

Try this:
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/i...e_power_alley/

Anyway, as you've read: separating bass cabs (or subwoofers) = bad sound.

craig.p · #10 01-10-2012, 04:14 PM

Try this.

craig.p · #11 01-10-2012, 04:14 PM

Two great minds on the same page.

But one slower than the other, LOL......

tekdiver500ft · #12 01-10-2012, 05:04 PM

Something like that...

derrico1 · #13 01-10-2012, 05:10 PM

IME, this only works if one or both cabs are used as low volume spot monitors; and if you've got serious (bass-capable) stage monitors, there's no need.

SurferJoe46 · #14 01-10-2012, 05:54 PM

Ah! But back-to-back will work. I know, I've done it to fill in the area behind the stage and the front too.

Now I just wonder if back-to-back and facing to the stage ends will work. Hmmm?

Is bass dispersion omnidirectional or is it not? I know one cannot point to where my subwoofie is located - it just thumps and is 'there'.

will33 · #15 01-10-2012, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

Ah! But back-to-back will work. I know, I've done it to fill in the area behind the stage and the front too.

Now I just wonder if back-to-back and facing to the stage ends will work. Hmmm?

Is bass dispersion omnidirectional or is it not? I know one cannot point to where my subwoofie is located - it just thumps and is 'there'.

Below somewhere in the neighborhood of 150hz is omnidirectional, 100 and below for sure. You can stack them, have the bottom cab playing sideways across the band and the top one playing the audience and be OK.

billfitzmaurice · #16 01-10-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

Ah! But back-to-back will work. I know, I've done it to fill in the area behind the stage and the front too.

Back to back is fine. The low frequency sources remain less than 1/4 wavelength apart, so there's no power alley. With the cabs placed at a 90 degree angle or more their mids and highs don't have overlapping coverage, so there's no combing. But a better arrangement is stacked vertically with the lower cab aimed across the stage, the upper aimed at the you.

countrybass007 · #17 01-10-2012, 09:38 PM

The PA subwoofers is a new one to me. I don't recall ever being to a big concert that didn't have subwoofers on each side. Back in my 3 piece rock and roll days I had sort of a bass PA set up with the regular PA with two 18in. subs, and it sounded great. (Guass 18 in. subs)

suraci · #18 01-11-2012, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJ-VI

It'll lead to phase cancellation of various low frequencies at different locations throughout the venue. Please keep all your cabs in one location (preferably vertical/stacked) to avoid this.

You can experiment with having your cabs at various distances from walls and/or corners if you wish.

I have learn how to type faster.

Two issues for me- and I trust experts here, no debate- I want my sound near my ear but coupled to the floor to not lose bass
so a stack from floor to near ear level ( I am thankfully short guy )
The second issue that is more related to this thread... I have been toying with idea of an extra speaker for the drummer.
He is right next to me, but we play so dang soft that I wish him to have a speaker.

How can these two goals be achieved? 2 identical speakers stacked but one turned slightly towards drummer ( the lower one ) and the higher ( the higher in the stack ) be aiming at my ear???? PA support not needed nor liked!

keiththebassist · #19 01-11-2012, 12:56 AM

thanks for all the great info friends!

Sundogue · #20 01-11-2012, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suraci

Two issues for me- and I trust experts here, no debate- I want my sound near my ear but coupled to the floor to not lose bass
so a stack from floor to near ear level ( I am thankfully short guy )
The second issue that is more related to this thread... I have been toying with idea of an extra speaker for the drummer.
He is right next to me, but we play so dang soft that I wish him to have a speaker.

How can these two goals be achieved? 2 identical speakers stacked but one turned slightly towards drummer ( the lower one ) and the higher ( the higher in the stack ) be aiming at my ear???? PA support not needed nor liked!

Yes, turn one towards the drummer and one towards you but keep them stacked.