Cabs question

[Dustin Teel]

Hey guys, I'm trying to figure out the optimal speaker cab setup for my current situation. I'm playing mid-sized venues with a crappy Behringer 410 combo, and it is simply not getting the job done. It is loud, but the low end is just lacking. 10 feet or more away from the stage and the bass is "heard" and not "felt". Not to mention, the tone is crap. I already have a buyer and will be selling it within days, but I need a replacement, as my band is booked all the way through the summer.

I'm pretty young, and have only started rigorously gigging over the last two years, so I haven't had a chance to try many different rigs. However, I have become extremely fond of the Gallien Krueger growl, the value and power of Peavey, and the overall quality and tone of Ampeg. My next rig will be one (if not a combination) of the three.

Our band plays mostly 90s alternative covers (Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, STP, etc.), so I need a decent enough rock tone. Nothing too out of the ordinary.

Thus, my question: Would I achieve deeper lows with a 2x10 + 115 setup than I did with the 410s? Should I consider something less common like 2 15s? Should I just stop worrying and buy another 410 cab and head that isn't cheap German junk?

It is my understanding that lows often depend on overall air movement which ends up being reliant more on "number" of speakers than "size" of speakers. Perhaps 6x10 is the way to go?

I've been considering a GK MB210 combo on top of a GK 115 or 410. I've also been looking at the new Peavey Headliner series and considering going with two 15s, and perhaps using one of the Tour heads to run them. I'm also very impressed with Ampeg's new Portaflex series...

My price range is $700-$1000ish as of now

I know this is a very roundabout, wordy question, but I feel overwhelmed by options and would like to hear from some of you more seasoned veterans who have used many different speaker cabinet setups and have knowledge on the subject.

Thanks in advance!

[dukeisdog]

I just snapped a quick picture of my current setup.

- Peavey Tour 700
- Avatar Neo B212

I love this setup. My cab is 8 ohms, and this head puts out a LOUD 500 watts at 8 ohms (a perfect match for this cab). I've had my stack since January, and have loved every second I've played it. Everyone seems to compliment the tone of the amp, and the cab is a light 56 lbs. The head will not get a nice grindy or dirty tone, but has a great clean tone.

I really think you should check out the Avatar cabs (and I think a lot of people will agree with me on this one). I used this rig in a loud hardcore band, and have attached a picture to show you what I was up against guitar amp wise. This amp never struggled one bit.

Apparently my pictures from my iPhone are too big to post on the app. I was playing with two guitarists, one using a Peavey 6534+ through a Mesa 412, the other using a Peavey 6505 through a Marshall 412 and a hard hitting drummer.

I'd recommend both my head and cab for your needs.

[JimmyM]

You won't always achieve deeper lows with a 410 than a 210/115 rig, but with many 410's you can. It's all a case by case basis. If I were you, I'd go 410. But almost anything will be an improvement. Stay away from budget cabs if you can. You don't have to get the most expensive 410 made to sound good, but you definitely need to stay away from the bottom of the line cabs. It's a really good idea to go used, too. You can find good 410's all day long on the used market for $300. You can skimp on the bass and the amp, but skimping on the cab always results in failure.

[dukeisdog]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You won't always achieve deeper lows with a 410 than a 210/115 rig, but with many 410's you can. It's all a case by case basis. If I were you, I'd go 410. But almost anything will be an improvement. Stay away from budget cabs if you can. You don't have to get the most expensive 410 made to sound good, but you definitely need to stay away from the bottom of the line cabs. It's a really good idea to go used, too. You can find good 410's all day long on the used market for $300. You can skimp on the bass and the amp, but skimping on the cab always results in failure.

I completely agree. But inexpensive and cheap are two totally different things in my opinion.

[JimmyM]

Right. The trick is knowing which is which. Staying away from the dirt cheapest stuff out there is a good way to narrow down the process.

[OOZMAN]

I gonna go against jimmyM (diggin a hole) and say that 2 cheap 410s will be louder than a single good 410, disregarding tone of course, and this might be the way to go. IMO, a bearable tone can be had on ANY equipment with ANY bass.

[pnut166]

After experimenting with several budget options over the last year, I am extremely happy with my current setup: A Line6 HD750 head, a Peavey 115 and 210. It is mind-numbingly loud while retaining the tone, and I rarely even use the 210. The L6 head has a somewhat gimmicky layout at first glance, and can seem kinda wonky dialing it in, but once you get used to it`s quirks, it produces just about any tone you want and does it well. The whole setup (used): $450. I recently added a used XT Live for $150, and absolutely love my rig

[Bassdirty]

Originally Posted by Dustin Teel

.....with a crappy Behringer 410 combo, and it is simply not getting the job done. ...



Thus, my question: Would I achieve deeper lows with a 2x10 + 115 setup than I did with the 410s? Should I consider something less common like 2 15s?
....

After reading your post..It makes me think that you might be "turned off" from 410s...solely based on your experience with 1 brand.
(I also get the impression that a lot of people make decisions based on a sample of one.)


For the record, the deepest lows/biggest bottom/ all around best tones I've ever heard..all came from 410s.

I think you need to try more brands..you'd be amazed.


I vote for a good 410.
SWR goliath comes to mind. That's my favorite for the money. You can find a used one in your price range.



Jimmy says:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

you definitely need to stay away from the bottom of the line cabs. It's a really good idea to go used, too. You can find good 410's all day long on the used market for $300. You can skimp on the bass and the amp, but skimping on the cab always results in failure.

+1 to jimmy.

[lbwdog]

O.P.,
Sounds like you are on the right track. Picking the right gear can be somewhat overwhelming these days. Unfortunately, you'll probably get such a variety of responses here, you'll get even more confused.

Since you are beginning to play a good bit though, I'd stay away from a combo, and go with a head and cab that'll do what you need. IMHO, G-K is one of the most cost effective brands for amps, either new or used. If ultra light weight isn't a requirement, a 700RB II is a great bargain, but so is an MB500.

Someone suggested an SWR Goliath III for speakers. I agree there too. You can do any size gig with that rig and not spend a lot. As Jimmy said, don't skimp on quality for speakers. Try as many as you can. You'll find a rig that "speaks" to you.
I usually also recommend 8 Ohm cabs, so you can add another if needed. Don't buy into the "I can get all the watts out of my amp with a 4 Ohm cab" myth. If you have to do that for a 2-3 db increase, then you don't have enough power to begin with!

Good Luck

[Dustin Teel]

Thanks so far guys, very valuable information. I will certainly be checking out the SWR and Avatar cabs as you are correct, I have never used these (or heard them, as far as I know).

I did get a chance to test out a 2 15 + head setup last night and was extremely impressed. It was the new Ampeg PF500 head running two Peavey 15 cabs. I was very impressed by the tone, so I'm still considering the 212 or 215 route...

Although I am not going to let my bad experiences with Behringer turn me off to 410s. I heard a GK 410 and head setup that another bass player used at one of our gigs a few weeks ago and was simply blown away by the awesome tone.

I will certainly stay open minded. Thanks for the tips so far!

[jlepre]

Just my 2 cents, but if you like the 410 sound, but want MORE bottom then an SVT410HLF would do the trick. I had one for years, and used can be had for at or around $500. It still would leave you room for a decent 500 watt head.