can Drop C blow my 2 x 15 bassman speakers?

[carbonsystem]

Hi, I've been looking around quite a bit on the forums but I'm finding differing answers to my question >

I have a Bassman 50 Silverface head and a matching 2 x 15 cab. Speakers are original. I play w/ a P Bass, and occasionally use a russian big muff. First of all, I absolutely love the tone of this amp, it is exactly what I desire. Now the possible issue which may not be.

The last few practices our band has been working on a song where I decided to try and tune the low E down to C. Sounds great, works great. About this time it appears my tubes may be going out. Regardless, amp is not sounding great anymore.

I think it's probably tubes

BUT

Can playing low-c frequencies trash these speakers? (originals, they definitely weren't made for that low a frequency back in the day I think)

thanks friends

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by carbonsystem

Can playing low-c frequencies trash these speakers? (originals, they definitely weren't made for that low a frequency back in the day I think)

They couldn't even take a full 50 watts at a low E without farting out.

[RickenBoogie]

Yes, the lower you go, the more power is needed, and the more stress is put on the spkrs.

[carbonsystem]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

They couldn't even take a full 50 watts at a low E without farting out.

Ok I see, well at this point it's been modded and brought up to maybe nearer 65 tube watts.

Regardless, the power has always been enough, and a bit of a push is a sound I've been enjoying. I'm really not after the "perfect bass tone". I play in a three piece and so far it's nice. But if the lows can really ruin things, I dare not do it again.

Of course I still need to change the tubes, make sure I didn't already mess up the speakers.

[Jazz Ad]

I always saw the Bassman as a guitar amp.

[john m]

My first "good" amp was a Bassman 50. I bought it new in 1972. It sounded good, but not enough power. I soon bought an Acoustic 360 to keep up with the Mashalls and Leslies of the day.

If you want to play loud and deep---buy as much power and speakers as you can afford. A tube pre with a power amp would be my choice, but it sounds like you need an SVT.

[carbonsystem]

Ok thanks for the suggestions everyone, but the tone and power being provided is really perfect for what I do.

It really is more of a guitar amp. But can deliver some really great tone for the music my band makes.

I don't need the loudest amp in the world, or a new one.

Does anyone know the specs of maximum frequency range for the old Oxfords that went in the old fender cabs?

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by carbonsystem

Does anyone know the specs of maximum frequency range for the old Oxfords that went in the old fender cabs?

No records exist, and they pre-dated T/S specs anyway. But they were guitar drivers.

[carbonsystem]

Originally Posted by john m

My first "good" amp was a Bassman 50. I bought it new in 1972. It sounded good, but not enough power. I soon bought an Acoustic 360 to keep up with the Mashalls and Leslies of the day.

If you want to play loud and deep---buy as much power and speakers as you can afford. A tube pre with a power amp would be my choice, but it sounds like you need an SVT.

Really, I'm not in need of an SVT. I don't need loud and deep. I'm not in a metal band or anything. The drop C on the E string is one song, and it's really a pretty relaxing tune.

As far as loudness goes. The amp is easily loud enough for rehearsals and stage volume. Venues larger than that will always mic+direct in the amp. So volume just isn't an issue.

It's just a matter of me wanting to keep this amp in the fine condition it is, not to screw up the setup for a new song w/ one low tuned string.

[dhsierra1]

is this the larger 40" by 30" cab or the smaller 30" by 28" one?

If one or both of the speakers are blown you have a couple of options, there was a thread here recently on someone modding the smaller cab.

[carbonsystem]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

is this the larger 40" by 30" cab or the smaller 30" by 28" one?

If one or both of the speakers are blown you have a couple of options, there was a thread here recently on someone modding the smaller cab.

I believe it's the larger cab. I'll have to measure when I get home, but I'm pretty sure it's the larger.

[dhsierra1]

if it's the larger one you can drop in a couple of Eminence Beta 15a's or Delta 15s or even the CB 158s. I'll leave it to the more experienced to recommend one over the other but those seem to be popular choices for those cabs.

Of course if you have the long $ you can drop in a couple of JBL D140Fs or K140s for true vintage goodness But the Eminence are good, too.

Regardless, do some bracing in the cab and line all but the baffle inside w/either corrugated open cell bed liner foam or poly fill batting used to stuff quilts and such.

[MontanaBassDude]

After hanging around the fEARful Forum a while, the one thing I've quickly learnt is that you probably can't just "drop in" any drivers into any cab and expect happy results. Everything's gotta be pretty perfectly matched up.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by MontanaBassDude

After hanging around the fEARful Forum a while, the one thing I've quickly learnt is that you probably can't just "drop in" any drivers into any cab and expect happy results. Everything's gotta be pretty perfectly matched up.

very true. The drivers I recommended are used a lot in sealed cabs of that size and configuration w/good results for "vintage" sound.

[Crockettnj]

Originally Posted by MontanaBassDude

After hanging around the fEARful Forum a while, the one thing I've quickly learnt is that you probably can't just "drop in" any drivers into any cab and expect happy results. Everything's gotta be pretty perfectly matched up.

You are correct. HOWEVER-

It really depends upon what your expectations, prior reference, and tonal goals are.

I know this goes vs conventional wisdom and proper engineering practice, however if you're used to little bottom, little top, a mid hump, and beaming, you can toss in a lot of drivers and get that or maybe better.

Then again you could pay attention to detail and tailor your product to specific goals.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by Crockettnj

You are correct. HOWEVER-

It really depends upon what your expectations, prior reference, and tonal goals are.

I know this goes vs conventional wisdom and proper engineering practice, however if you're used to little bottom, little top, a mid hump, and beaming, you can toss in a lot of drivers and get that or maybe better.

Then again you could pay attention to detail and tailor your product to specific goals.

I agree with this. The drivers I recommended are a starting point and are generally accepted as the usual suspects for replacement/upgrade for Bassman, Showman, and other vintage cabs of those basic dimensions. They're pretty forgiving, in short, provided you do the homework to see what will work for what you're doing. One of the joys of TB is this sort of thing is done a lot and people are willing to share their findings based on empirical experience.

That said, I recently redid a Showman 2-15 cab with 2 JBL D140Fs but tuned and ported the cabs so as to improve the low end. Much like the tone ring. Plus a little judicious bracing and lining of the interior cab walls. So it's not fEARFUL in low end, but it's a lot better than when those cabs came out w/those drivers back in the 60s and perfect for a couple of bands I need that particular look and sound. Could I get there using smaller/smarter modern cabs, drivers and designs? Absolutely, but it wouldn't meet the criteria I have, as well as the bands have, for a more autentico vintage look and feel onstage.

So it's a matter of what your goals are. Those types of cabs can be improved by dropping in those particular drivers or you can improve the performance even further w/a little WinISD sweat equity. All depends on your interests, goals, and abilities.

[bassmeknik]

Originally Posted by Crockettnj

I know this goes vs conventional wisdom and proper engineering practice, however if you're used to little bottom, little top, a mid hump, and beaming, you can toss in a lot of drivers and get that or maybe better.

Agreed. Eminence has several drivers designed to work well in sealed cabs. In comparison to the cabs original drivers the modern driver will likely sound better than the originals. While the existing cab volume may not be optimal according to the published specs it will likely still work better than the original drivers. (larger cab model only as it is nearer to the specified volume required where the smaller cab is just to small)

[bassmeknik]

As Mr Fitsmaurice said the amp really needed better speakers brand new so using it in a drop C application is asking a lot from this rig.

IMO get whatever Eminence driver is recommended for retrofitting in a sealed box and upgrade the cab. If the rig has mojo you like but lacks in other ways fix it. Start by comparing the recommended volume of the TS parameters to the volume of your cab factoring by 2 as there are 2 drivers.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by carbonsystem

The last few practices our band has been working on a song where I decided to try and tune the low E down to C. Sounds great, works great. About this time it appears my tubes may be going out. Regardless, amp is not sounding great anymore.

I think it's probably tubes

Honestly, if you weren't so earnest I'd think you were winding us up.

Your "sounds good" must be the sound of bass farts. You got away with that sound with E but C was too much.

I think you are going to put new tubes in and find zero improvement because you blew out the drivers.

[bassmeknik]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Honestly, if you weren't so earnest I'd think you were winding us up.

Your "sounds good" must be the sound of bass farts. You got away with that sound with E but C was too much.

I think you are going to put new tubes in and find zero improvement because you blew out the drivers.

+1