Can a Hartke compete?

dsbass09 · #1 01-15-2013, 10:40 AM

Hey guys, this is my first post. I've been playing bass for 8 years now. I'm finally upgrading to a "big boy" rig. I just joined a progressive metal / metalcore band against my better judgement. There is a Hartke 3500 head for $250, a Hartke LH500 for $225, a Hartke Transient Attack with matching 4x10 cab for $400, and a GK 1001 - rb for $400. I want to spend the least amount and get the best sound possible. What would you guys suggest? Buying the head and cab package or a single head then pick up another cab somewhere? I'm worried that some of these might not keep up with my band. I'm up against a Peavy all tube head with a Mesa Boogie 4x10 and our other guitar player has a Line 6 half stack, not to mention a caveman of a drummer who couldn't not beat the hell out of his kit if the universe depended on it. I need to be able to keep up with these guys plus have a decent amount of headroom in case of an outside gig. Would the Hartke 3500s be enough with a 4x10 cab and maybe aother 1x15? I have absolutely no experience with any of these heads or cabs so any help is appreciated. THANKS!

Proraptor · #2 01-15-2013, 10:43 AM

Im a huge fan of my ha 5500...love the eq and has plenty of power to keep up with two guitars. Im running it on a swr goliath senior

NWB · #3 01-15-2013, 10:46 AM

In order to "compete" in that situation, you'd probably need an 8x10 (or two) and 1,000 watts (or more).

And a whole lot of hearing protection!

Really, if they play that loud, then you'll end up in a losing battle of both volume and hearing.

dsbass09 · #4 01-15-2013, 10:48 AM

That's good to hear. I want the GK but I could get a head and a cab for the price of hat head. I forgot to mention these are all on Craigslist in my area and all in great shape except one slider on the 3500 fell off.

dsbass09 · #5 01-15-2013, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWB

In order to "compete" in that situation, you'd probably need an 8x10 (or two) and 1,000 watts (or more).

And a whole lot of hearing protection!

Really, if they play that loud, then you'll end up in a losing battle of both volume and hearing.

That's what I was afraid of. There's also an ampeg 8x10 cab for 300 but it has a hole where the caster should be -_-

And I ALWAYS wear hearing protection. I can't afford to lose my hearing as a musician. The other guys, however, will be deaf before 30.

B-string · #6 01-15-2013, 10:51 AM

Of your listed heads the 1001RB II will provide the power needed easily. Cabs will be the factor as that amp can destroy weak cabs. Don't mix a 115 with a 410 as the 115 will fail long before a good 410 will. Get two 8 ohm 410s or a 4 ohm 412 and you should have no trouble with loud guitars.

krstko · #7 01-15-2013, 10:58 AM

Hartke HA series are really awsome if you ask me. Awsome eqaulizer, lots of tonal possibilities, tube/SS preamp,... If possible get the 5500, almost same price for 150w more is awsome

dsbass09 · #8 01-15-2013, 11:05 AM

But will the Hartke LH500 keep up with the band? I would prefer to not spend 400 on a head because I'm on a moderately limited budget but I can always put in the extra hours at work if I need to.

AdamR · #9 01-15-2013, 11:07 AM

No experience with the Hartkes but that 1001RB will destroy small villages. Or to put it in to more metal terms, Its brutal.

Bass_Pounder · #10 01-15-2013, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsbass09

Would the Hartke 3500s be enough with a 4x10 cab and maybe aother 1x15? I have absolutely no experience with any of these heads or cabs so any help is appreciated. THANKS!

Just curious........

If you have no experience with any of the stuff listed, why would you think a 1X15 mixed with a 4X10 is a good idea ?

dsbass09 · #11 01-15-2013, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Just curious........

If you have no experience with any of the stuff listed, why would you think a 1X15 mixed with a 4X10 is a good idea ?

When I was researching the Hartke heads I saw lots of setups with a 4x10 and a 1x15 so I assumed it was a good setup for those heads.

JimmyM · #12 01-15-2013, 11:30 AM

Eh, not as good as two matching cabs IMHO. A lot of people do use them, but a 410 gets considerably louder than a 115, and frankly I don't ever like the way they sound together in any rigs I've played of that style.

Gearhead17 · #13 01-15-2013, 11:30 AM

Spend the $400 on the GK head. Growlier tone right off the bat, lots of headroom and when paired with a good cabinet, it can blast you away. Should work well in the band you are in

Nothing against the Hartke's, I feel you need to grab more wattage here.

+1 to two 8 ohm 410's or a 412.

dsbass09 · #14 01-15-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Eh, not as good as two matching cabs IMHO. A lot of people do use them, but a 410 gets considerably louder than a 115, and frankly I don't ever like the way they sound together in any rigs I've played of that style.

Out of all the rigs I've played through I prefer an 8x10 or two 4x10s more than anything else. I wast just assuming there was a reason I saw so many of those around.

LostInSauce · #15 01-15-2013, 11:48 AM

There's been a lot of good advice rolling your way since the inception of this thread. And no poster has yet to steer you in an adverse direction; based on my experience I would have recommended many of the same things.

That being said...

A good amp is vitally important especially in referrence to power and tone shaping. However, volume (loudness) is not decided by sheer wattage alone. A 500w head or even an 800w head into a single speaker (ANY single speaker) will only get "so" loud. Acoustic wattage has to increase by 300 watts to provide a doubled increase in volume. Where as adding a second speaker to your output will increase you loudness by a factor of four (your volume x 4). That's why an 8X10 driven by a moderately powered 300 watt amp has the ability to rip your head off.

Since budget is a factor in your decision (as it is with many of us) I would start with the Hartke LH500 and an 8ohm 4X10 first and add a 15" or even an 18" later if necessary.

At rehearsal, don't be afraid to take the bull by the horns and move EVERYTHING around to accomodate your new gear. The guitar amps should not be facing directly towards you at those volumes. Not just for preventing hearing damage; but, also due to signal distortion and frequency cancellation. When overlapping high output speakers are aimed in the same direction the signals began distorting and nullify each other. The guitarist standing in front of his/her amp won't realize this until they walk five or six steps in front of the both amps. As with my band, I had to get both guitarists to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with me to hear how bad their sound was from where I normally stand. After that, amps got angled and volumes came down. Oddly enough; when they're not facing you...you begin to hear YOU.

I hope some of this helps.

Bass_Pounder · #16 01-15-2013, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsbass09

Out of all the rigs I've played through I prefer an 8x10 or two 4x10s more than anything else. I wast just assuming there was a reason I saw so many of those around.

Pure marketing BS

Alot of people fall for it, thinking that the 15" brings the lows, while the 10's bring the punch.

Most people don't realize that 10's are no "faster" or "punchier" then 15's, or that a 1X15 really only has the acoustical output of a 2X10, or that most 4X10's go louder and lower then a 15.

Then there are also those that think running those 2 cabs together is good if you bi-amp (lows to the 15, and highs to the tens). The problem with that line of thought is that to keep up with a single 15 handling the lows, you only need a single 6" mid driver - so you are carrying a heavy 4X10 to do the work of a single 6".

RickenBoogie · #17 01-15-2013, 11:54 AM

Again, avoid the 410/115 pairing. Lots of good info about the hows and whys on TB. And again, wattage alone will not get you loud. Speakers are key, and a pair of 8 ohm 4x10's, or a BIG 4 ohm cab, like a 4x12, or 8x10 is just as good. for wattage, go 300 watts minimum, and more is better. Watts are fairly cheasp these days, so get the most you can afford. BUT, don't skimp on the spkrs, and avoid the dreaded 410/115.

sevdog · #18 01-15-2013, 11:55 AM

The LH500 will work. The GK will work well.

My LH500 does not sound as loud as my 800rb despite being rated at only 300 watts versus the LH500's 500 Watts. If you go the Hartke route get an HA5500, which has already been mentioned, or an LH1000.

...and yes, 8x10, 4x12, 2x15 or two 4x10s

Bass_Pounder · #19 01-15-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostInSauce

A good amp is vitally important especially in referrence to power and tone shaping. However, volume (loudness) is not decided by sheer wattage alone. A 500w head or even an 800w head into a single speaker (ANY single speaker) will only get "so" loud. Acoustic wattage has to increase by 300 watts to provide a doubled increase in volume. Where as adding a second speaker to your output will increase you loudness by a factor of four (your volume x 4). That's why an 8X10 driven by a moderately powered 300 watt amp has the ability to rip your head off.

Doubling your wattage (and if the speaker can make use of the extra power) will only yield a +3db.

Adding another cab can increase your output by +6 db (increased output from SS amps, combined with extra speaker area and acoustical coupling).

To actually Double your volume, you need 10X the output.

dhsierra1 · #20 01-15-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Pure marketing BS

Alot of people fall for it, thinking that the 15" brings the lows, while the 10's bring the punch.

Most people don't realize that 10's are no "faster" or "punchier" then 15's, or that a 1X15 really only has the acoustical output of a 2X10, or that most 4X10's go louder and lower then a 15.

Then there are also those that think running those 2 cabs together is good if you bi-amp (lows to the 15, and highs to the tens). The problem with that line of thought is that to keep up with a single 15 handling the lows, you only need a single 6" mid driver - so you are carrying a heavy 4X10 to do the work of a single 6".

+1

I agree with the poster who recommends going with the Hartke LH500 since that is your best wattage and tone bang for the buck, though all those are good amps.

I also agree with starting with an 8 ohm 4-10 and adding another later or if you're lucky finding a 4 ohm 4-12 within your budget. 4-10s are plentiful so your pickings are easier and cheaper there.

2-15s are my person favs but I don't think that's going to be enough for your purposes.

And get those guitaristas to turn it down, please........