Can a Hartke compete?

[sokolasty]

Just my 0,02 to the first post:
If your guitarist have two halfstacks and they crank'em up, you should get at least 8x10s, or even better two 8x10s.

Or... they can get themselves smaller amps or power breaks. The drummer can dampen his set.

[dsbass09]

Thanks for all the info guys. I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to go with the LH500, as much as I want the GK. We have our first gig as a full band (they've never had a bassist since they started the band) a month from now, and I need a rig quick. We have to get our sound tight and I need time to get used to the new setup. I don't really have the time to save money for the GK. However, I forgot tax time is soon approaching which means a hefty check for me, a full time independent college student with a full time job. I'm thinking i'll pick up an ampeg 8x10 in March. I can't thank you all enough for the advice.

[Ric5]

The LH500 and a Hartke 6x10 will get the job done.

[dsbass09]

So now I have another question for you guys. The guy with the Hartke 3500 just cut me a deal. The head for $125 if my band gets our scrims (banner things on the sides that some bands use) at his print shop ( which we were going to do anyway). Let's say I have the 350 watt head and it isn't enough power. Can I add a power amp to it and run a bigger cab? I feel like 125 for that head is a pretty sweet deal.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by dsbass09

So now I have another question for you guys. The guy with the Hartke 3500 just cut me a deal. The head for $125 if my band gets our scrims (banner things on the sides that some bands use) at his print shop ( which we were going to do anyway). Let's say I have the 350 watt head and it isn't enough power. Can I add a power amp to it and run a bigger cab? I feel like 125 for that head is a pretty sweet deal.

Yes you can use the effects send to an external power amp.

[avvie]

I had the 3500 with a 410 and 115 Transporter cab and it was fine. There comes a point when guitar stops being volume and starts being just noise; you'll be heard and felt through it.

[Session1969]

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Pure marketing BS

Alot of people fall for it, thinking that the 15" brings the lows, while the 10's bring the punch.

Most people don't realize that 10's are no "faster" or "punchier" then 15's, or that a 1X15 really only has the acoustical output of a 2X10, or that most 4X10's go louder and lower then a 15.

Then there are also those that think running those 2 cabs together is good if you bi-amp (lows to the 15, and highs to the tens). The problem with that line of thought is that to keep up with a single 15 handling the lows, you only need a single 6" mid driver - so you are carrying a heavy 4X10 to do the work of a single 6".

That's not correct. A single 6" in a fearful will not give the punch that 8-10's will provide. A different sound altogether. I'd go with the GK1001 for the headroom and power. It's a great rock head.

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by Session1969

That's not correct. A single 6" in a fearful will not give the punch that 8-10's will provide. A different sound altogether. I'd go with the GK1001 for the headroom and power. It's a great rock head.

Reading comprehension ?

Who said a sing;e 6" will give the punch of a 8X10 ?

What was stated that thew amount of mids and highs necessary to provide a balance with a single 15 cab in a bi-amp situation can be provided by a 6" mid driver.

When bi-amping with a 1X15 and a 4X10, the 4X10 is a giant paperweight for the work it performs.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by Session1969

That's not correct. A single 6" in a fearful will not give the punch that 8-10's will provide. A different sound altogether. I'd go with the GK1001 for the headroom and power. It's a great rock head.

The mid driver delivers definition not "punch". The "punch" comes below the crossover point of the mid driver.

[tbirdsp]

Originally Posted by dsbass09

So now I have another question for you guys. The guy with the Hartke 3500 just cut me a deal. The head for $125 if my band gets our scrims (banner things on the sides that some bands use) at his print shop ( which we were going to do anyway). Let's say I have the 350 watt head and it isn't enough power. Can I add a power amp to it and run a bigger cab? I feel like 125 for that head is a pretty sweet deal.

Is this an old MOSFET Transient Attack 3500 or a newer HA?

I have an early 90's 3500 and that thing is stupid loud with my two Genz Benz Focus 115's. In fact, I doubt I'll ever use it with both cabs except for outdoor gigs or something.

[BillyIVbass]

The LH500 rocks, but definitely run it with 2 8ohm 4x10s so you can get the maximum power (all 500 watts) from the head. The name of the game is cutting through loud guitars, that is why I wouldn't bother with a 1x15.

[Vince Klortho]

Originally Posted by avvie

I had the 3500 with a 410 and 115 Transporter cab and it was fine.

That's the combination I have, except my 1x15 is not a Transporter, and it works great for me. I had my first gig with the new band last weekend and everyone loved the sound.

[Vince Klortho]

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

When bi-amping with a 1X15 and a 4X10, the 4X10 is a giant paperweight for the work it performs.

It depends entirely on where the crossover frequency is set. It would have to be rather low for the load to be split evenly. Personally, I really don't think it's worth it to bi-amp a bass amp setup unless you were using a real PA-system.

[Vince Klortho]

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Most people don't realize ..., or that a 1X15 really only has the acoustical output of a 2X10, or that most 4X10's go louder and lower then a 15.

That is not always true and is not more often that it is. The reason is sound output is the product of the area of the speaker cone times its excursion. Two 10-inch speakers have approximately 16% less surface area than one 15-inch and their excursions are rarely if ever equal. Most tens are manufactured with smaller voice coils and surrounds that limit their excursion to less than that of a fifteen, sometimes much less so and that is where the big difference comes in.

As a comparison, here are the specs of Hartke's of the 4x10 and 1x15 from HyDrive line.

115 :

Power Handling: 500 watts
Impedance: 8 ohms
Frequency Response: 20 Hz to 17 kHz
Sensitivity: 98 dB @ 1 W/1 m
Voice Coil: 3"

410 :

Power Handling: 1000 watts
Impedance: 8 ohms
Frequency Response: 30 Hz to 17 kHz
Sensitivity: 99 dB @ 1 W/1 m
Voice Coil: 2.5"

It can be seen that the 15 goes deeper and is only 1dB less sensitive.

Surface area calculations : formula is Pi times radius squared.
10-inch : radius is 4.5 because 0.5 is used for the frame so area of two is 127.2 square inches.
15-inch : radius is 7.0 because 0.5 is used for the frame so area is 153.9 square inches.

[B-string]

You can not take manufacturers specs as bible, period.
You will find the larger the driver the more diameter you loose to basket and suspension.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by dsbass09

So now I have another question for you guys. The guy with the Hartke 3500 just cut me a deal. The head for $125 if my band gets our scrims (banner things on the sides that some bands use) at his print shop ( which we were going to do anyway). Let's say I have the 350 watt head and it isn't enough power. Can I add a power amp to it and run a bigger cab? I feel like 125 for that head is a pretty sweet deal.

that's a great deal for a very good amp, esp if it's the MOSFET version. It'll be powerful enough for your needs with the right cabs. Very versatile amp.

Again, with your budget you're better off looking at matched 8 ohm 410s due to their sensitivity and availability in the used world.

[makohund]

Originally Posted by Vince Klortho

Surface area calculations : formula is Pi times radius squared.
10-inch : radius is 4.5 because 0.5 is used for the frame so area of two is 127.2 square inches.
15-inch : radius is 7.0 because 0.5 is used for the frame so area is 153.9 square inches.

Speakers are not flat circles, they are closer to being cones.

Sd for two common 10" bass drivers I looked up: 700cm2
Sd for a 15 of the same family: 856cm2

Granted, the percentage difference ended up about the same, but better folks know the real calculation.

In surface area the 4x10 exceeds the 1x15 by far. But that doesn't matter, displacement does. For that, the 15 is about the same as 3 of the 10s... so neither is a good match on those grounds. Both tie with a "fail".

Power handling of two of the 10s is the same as the single 15. Which of course makes the 4x10 double that. Cut both in half to get closer to real (excursion) limits, but still... the 2x10 wins this round.

It also is closer in sensitivity (only about 1db higher than the 115), so that's two wins.

So using real numbers a 2x10 was a better match for a 1x15 than a 4x10. But it still isn't a match.

[bassmachine2112]

Hi,I would go for a 4x12 if you can find one or 4x10 and a 2x10 which gives great options
2x10 for practice or small gigs,4x10 for practice and medium gigs and 4x10 and 2x10 for damaging your hearing.
It,s a flexible way to go.
I use 2 2x10s for ease of carrying/space.
Hartke amps are good loud amps and the older HA amps are silly loud for their size and the LH500 is very good as well.
I wouldn,t go near a 15" with 10" speakers.Stick to 10"s.

[devilman666]

!!!8X10!!! end of story. I've played this game and I know the deal that or two 4x10's. The head i would go for best power to cab combo. I think in those price ranges and the style I would look for mybe a used SWR 750x with two four ten cabs of your choice or a used ampeg fridge8x10. head used at evil gc 450.00.

[devilman666]

Not a Hartke fan