Can I ask a stupid question?

Dan Kahanamoku · #1 03-11-2011, 12:28 PM

What would happen if I plugged the 1/4" out jack of my Zoom B2 into the back of a 1 X 15 bass cab?

iamoldschool · #2 03-11-2011, 12:32 PM

Nothing. You would need an amplifier to hear it. I don't think the Zoom has enough power to drive a 15.

You can listen to it by running it from the output into a line in on the PA.

Dan Kahanamoku · #3 03-11-2011, 12:37 PM

Kinda what I figured. Thanks.

Oopsdabassist · #4 03-11-2011, 12:55 PM

Ok following on with another stupid question. Gain and Volume on my amp, whats the best setting for a given room, low gain and high volume or vice versa? And why? Why not just max the gain all the time and control with Vol dial?

Justin Tuskey · #5 03-11-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oopsdabassist

Ok following on with another stupid question. Gain and Volume on my amp, whats the best setting for a given room, low gain and high volume or vice versa? And why? Why not just max the gain all the time and control with Vol dial?

I think the general consensus is to turn up the master all the way (my genz benz neopak says to leave it up around 3/4 to full) and then use your gain to adjust volume. this way you arent overdriving your amps preamp, which can lead to blowing your speakers, and damaging the amp. if the master is up, its just like sending the power signal all the way through at all times, and using the gain as the input level.

jeff7bass · #6 03-11-2011, 01:04 PM

At lower volume levels, you can push up the GAIN to get an overdriven sound but you don't want to clip the amp. Lower GAIN + higher MASTER means more clean sound and smoother amp operation. GAIN = pre-amp stage, MASTER = amp stage.

GrowlerBox · #7 03-11-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oopsdabassist

Ok following on with another stupid question. Gain and Volume on my amp, whats the best setting for a given room, low gain and high volume or vice versa? And why? Why not just max the gain all the time and control with Vol dial?

This very much depends on your amp/bass/playing-style combination. If you have a tube amp and you enjoy the overdriven distortion, then crank the gain and adjust volume to taste. Many solid-state amplifiers do not clip in a pleasant fashion, and gain is set accordingly -- start low, and play a line as hard as you would in performance, turn the gain up gradually until the clipping indicator starts to flicker. This point will vary depending on your bass's electronics and your playing. Most solid-state amps sound better if you back off a touch from here (e.g. Markbass), others are a bit more forgiving (e.g. Ampeg, and I believe G-K, for example). Then set the power amp's output with the master volume.

silky smoove · #8 03-11-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Tuskey

I think the general consensus is to turn up the master all the way (my genz benz neopak says to leave it up around 3/4 to full) and then use your gain to adjust volume.

I would not call it a consensus since it's dependant on so many variables. The majority of people using a tube amp in a rock setting would not use the setting you described for example. There's absolutely nothing wrong with you're describing, but I would hesitate to call it a consensus.

PSPookie · #9 03-11-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oopsdabassist

Ok following on with another stupid question. Gain and Volume on my amp, whats the best setting for a given room, low gain and high volume or vice versa? And why? Why not just max the gain all the time and control with Vol dial?

That depends on your amp and your sonic goals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Tuskey

. . . this way you arent overdriving your amps preamp, which can lead to blowing your speakers, and damaging the amp. if the master is up, its just like sending the power signal all the way through at all times, and using the gain as the input level.

Nonsense. Overdriving your preamp will have the same effect on your speakers as using an OD pedal.

Justin Tuskey · #10 03-11-2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silky smoove

I would not call it a consensus since it's dependant on so many variables. The majority of people using a tube amp in a rock setting would not use the setting you described for example. There's absolutely nothing wrong with you're describing, but I would hesitate to call it a consensus.

as soon as I posted that I remembered tube amps. I use solid state, so maybe I should clear that up...generally solid state users who want a nasty-free tone should keep the master up and use gain to taste.

you are very correct about tube amps. you want dirty...fastest way to get there is cranking the gain, then you want power tube gain, crank it all baby...but by that time you've already incinerated small animals in the vicinity.

Justin Tuskey · #11 03-11-2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSPookie

That depends on your amp and your sonic goals.

Nonsense. Overdriving your preamp will have the same effect on your speakers as using an OD pedal.

I was under the impression thats where the whole "underpowering your speakers" myth came about. people commonly mistake "underpowering" for the fact that they are cranking their preamps which sends too high of current to the speakers, causing them to fail. of course there is no such thing as underpowering, but people misuse the term. now if I am mistaken and its the poweramp cranking that is causing this, then I will yield.

HolmeBass · #12 03-11-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Tuskey

I think the general consensus is to turn up the master all the way (my genz benz neopak says to leave it up around 3/4 to full) and then use your gain to adjust volume. this way you arent overdriving your amps preamp, which can lead to blowing your speakers, and damaging the amp. if the master is up, its just like sending the power signal all the way through at all times, and using the gain as the input level.

Ok, I have to respectfully disagree. In fact the owners manuals for both Trace Elliot and Eden amps I have owned stated the exact opposite- you set the gain just below clipping, and use the master to adjust stage volume. That gets the most consistent signal going through your pre-amp and EQ stages and gives you the liveliest tone regardless of your output volume.

On the other hand I know guys who do exactly this and sound great, but it is the opposite of how I run gear and how at least those two amp manufacturers instruct one to set up the amp.

Jazz Ad · #13 03-11-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Tuskey

I think the general consensus is to turn up the master all the way (my genz benz neopak says to leave it up around 3/4 to full) and then use your gain to adjust volume.

Hardly a consensus. In my experience, this is a perfect recipe to a lifeless and dull tone.
Adjust gain to get a tone you like, then master to produce the desired output.

Oopsdabassist · #14 03-12-2011, 09:18 AM

Tnx for all the replies to my query, and yes I should have specified, its an Eden nemesis 400, so a transistor amp, not tube. I play through a 4 x 10 at 8 ohm for smaller gigs and add a 1 x 15 if I need the full oomph! So I shall set my gain to just short of clipping led coming on, and adjust master Vol from there..cheers all!

billoetjen · #15 03-12-2011, 09:24 AM

Just to make stupid question #2 even stupider...

My best amp has a tube preamp stage, and SS power stage. How's about setting Gain high and Master low?

billoetjen · #16 03-12-2011, 09:35 AM

...of course, all of this stuff goes away very conveniently if you add a VT Bass to the picture. "Pedal of the Future."

GrowlerBox · #17 03-12-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billoetjen

Just to make stupid question #2 even stupider...

My best amp has a tube preamp stage, and SS power stage. How's about setting Gain high and Master low?

Same thing applies (read my post, and/or various others) -- if you like what happens when the pre-amp clips, then that's where you have your gain. Volume is "just" the power -- set it where the situation demands.

And it doesn't go away when you add the VT Bass pedal, because now you have another stage added to your gain structure (or you've replaced one with another if you're bypassing your head's pre-amp).

JimmyM · #18 03-12-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Tuskey

as soon as I posted that I remembered tube amps. I use solid state, so maybe I should clear that up...generally solid state users who want a nasty-free tone should keep the master up and use gain to taste.

you are very correct about tube amps. you want dirty...fastest way to get there is cranking the gain, then you want power tube gain, crank it all baby...but by that time you've already incinerated small animals in the vicinity.

that's why there's a master volume as well.

elzeder · #19 03-12-2011, 01:53 PM

hi

i heard that if you have a good bass or love the sound of your bass, then you should set the gain higher in order to generate more of that bass sound .

But pushing the master in order to get more control from your amp also seems to make sense, but might result in a less personal sound.

GrowlerBox · #20 03-12-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elzeder

hi

i heard that if you have a good bass or love the sound of your bass, then you should set the gain higher in order to generate more of that bass sound .

But pushing the master in order to get more control from your amp also seems to make sense, but might result in a less personal sound.

Spend more time listening to your rig, and less time listening to advice. Except this advice!