can i swap speakers for more power??

[smogg]

Originally Posted by gregmon79

Come on fellas, work with me here. The fender is shot at the moment. The speakers are still good but the L pad is not. I just want to know if its worth swapping speakers so I can turn up louder and not blow the speakers out. Like do the speakers have anything to do with the wattage they put out? Or is that up to the circutry in the cab??

OK,
lets back up a minute. The Hartke has the higher power rating of the 2 cabs not the Fender. The 400w on the VX cab is continuous, The 600w on the Fender is peak. That means the Fender's continuous rating is only about 300w.

The only thing the L pad does is control the tweeter. Just by-pass it or leave it off. Use both 8 ohm cabs to make a 4 ohm 810 and let your amp run at a 4 ohm load.

Swapping speakers will gain you absolutely nothing. It's really that simple.

[wcriley]

Originally Posted by fxdwg

LOL Cannnot be done lol
two 8ohm speakers parallel=4ohm
the other two the same way.
output 1 to speaker set 1
output 2 to speaker set 2

What you've done is create two 4 ohm loads.
Unless you're using a two channel amp or two seperate amps, all drivers are in parallel and you've created a 2 ohm load.

[Jaco who?]

Originally Posted by fxdwg

LOL Cannnot be done lol
two 8ohm speakers parallel=4ohm
the other two the same way.
output 1 to speaker set 1
output 2 to speaker set 2
One cab 4 8ohm speakers and 4ohm
or 4 16ohm speakers wired in parallel = 4ohm

Well, ok, I spose; you are essentially creating two 4Ω 2x10 cabs in the same box. I don't know how that could help with a 4Ω minimum head. I have no idea what I bolded above is supposed to mean, but otherwise you're right, I guess.

[the yeti]

maybe just find a cheap 410 and use 2 together? for 2-300 that seems like the only real answer.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by gregmon79

And what is the proper name(s) for the insides of the cabinet, the electronics?

Crossover, L pad / attenuator, etc. Technically, they are electronic components.

Sorry to hear about your volume wars. If uncorrected, this will be a gig-killer for you. Seriously. Only thing worse than a too-loud band is a too-loud band with a few drinks under the belt.

Riis

[lokikallas]

Originally Posted by gregmon79

My fender 410 did quite well on its own in practice actually. I was asked to turn down on occasion cause I was trying to get even with the drummer. All of you know how that is I'm sure. Now that this is being discussed I'm thinking the L pad went bad because I was pushing the fender too hard??

Most likely. Take the l pad out, disconnect it or repair it. Use both cabs together and use common sense. You should be able to turn your amp master down with more volume. In the meantime chill out on volume.

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by fxdwg

LOL Cannnot be done lol
two 8ohm speakers parallel=4ohm
the other two the same way.
output 1 to speaker set 1
output 2 to speaker set 2
One cab 4 8ohm speakers and 4ohm
or 4 16ohm speakers wired in parallel = 4ohm

You still did not show that a 8 ohm cab can be rewired to 4 ohms. Reason - It cannot be done.


All you did was make it into 2 seperate 4 ohm 2X10's.

You still have to connect it to an amp, and if you plug them together in parallel it is a 2 ohm load to the amp. Connected in series still gives you an 8 ohm load.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by fxdwg

LOL Cannnot be done lol
two 8ohm speakers parallel=4ohm
the other two the same way.
output 1 to speaker set 1
output 2 to speaker set 2
One cab 4 8ohm speakers and 4ohm
or 4 16ohm speakers wired in parallel = 4ohm

'An' is specific and he posted that " 'an' 8 Ohm cabinet...." and you're saying that two 8 Ohm cabinets can be wired to make 4 Ohms, Of course they can, but that's not what he was saying. The cabinets are both 8 Ohms and neither can be rewired to show a 4 Ohm load to the amp. Get it?

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by gregmon79

I know this may be a stupid question but I'm not as educated as most on here about amps and cabs. But im working on that with everyones help here. I was wondering, if I have a vx410 hartke and I'm pushing it with a GK 1001RB 2, and its obviously not going to take it very well, can I change the speakers out of the hartke cab with some from my fender bassman 410 and be able to turn up a little more/push more than 400 Watts through them?? The hartke cab is rated at 8 ohms @ 400 watts. The speakers form myfender were peak 600 watts at 8 ohms. I'm thinking this isn't going to make a difference considering all that power rating stuff is from the electronics board in the cab and not just from the speakers. If i swap speakers, can I push more through them with that head?

The power rating for a speaker is due to a couple of things- thermal limit and excursion limit. Exceed either and your speakers won't last long.

Power handling doesn't indicate sensitivity, though. Sensitivity is the output level when a specific input voltage goes in and measured from a specific distance (usually placing the mic 1 meter from the speaker) with 2.83VAC into an 8 Ohm load (calculates to 1.001 Watt). A driver that delivers 97dB under these conditions will need half of the power of a driver that delivers 94dB. Using more speakers helps but the amp still needs to be happy with the speaker load. Your amp is putting out about half of it's rated power with a 4 Ohm load, but just using a cabinet with a total load of 4 Ohms won't help if the speakers are less sensitive- you may actually lose output, even when the amp is putting out more power.

Your L-pad also has a "power" limit and you exceeded that, causing it to fail open or become crunchy when you turn it up/down. Those are cheap- Parts Express and other places sell them. If yours is about 2-1/2" in diameter with a black cover on the back, that was probably rated for 50W- replace it with a 100W version and you'll be able to use this cabinet again. Technically, if you're blasting it so loud, it would benefit you to just bypass the tweeter/horn and use a separate High Frequency cabinet, so it will handle the power. Crossover components (capacitors) usually have a voltage rating, not a power rating. This works fine, because power WRT load can be calculated- 100W comes to 28.3V into an 8 Ohm load. 1000W comes to about 89VAC, so 50V capacitors will blow up pretty quickly. Your tweeter(s), if they cross over higher than 2500 Hz, are seeing about 30% of the total power, so a 100W L-Pad should last a while if you run the amp hard. Wiring an L-Pad: Tab 1= input positive, tab 2 = output positive and tab 3 connects to the speaker negative. You don't want to only use 1 & 2 because it won't be an L-Pad, it will be a variable resistor and the crossover won't work properly. Also, the amp may not like seeing that AND the crossover.

Not to pile on, but you're killing your freaking ears and you only get one set. Once they're toast, you can't get it back, even with hearing aids or surgery.

[gregmon79]

Wow, bassman, thank you so much for all the knowledge and know how. I will have to take this to my guy so he can break it down further for me. Thanks for the time you took to explain. I know what you mean though, I should start wearing ear plugs. That could turn into more of a serious problem than just a new cab/amp. I will follow your link and see if i can find my part(s). Just to clarify the fender is a 410h bassman model, so hopefully I can get parts. Its pretty old I think but its a great cab and has served me well. I'd like to keep it if i could.

[gregmon79]

I have no idea what to replace though. I plug into the fender cab and I get absolutely nothing. And I mean nothing coming out of it. The horn dial is also stuck all the way off. Before it went out on me it was cutting out when I hit a really deep sustained note and thought that it was just wires that needed to be soldered. But my guy opened er up and resolded the connections and when we put it back together and we got nothing out of it. At all. So I have no idea what to replace. He said that the "whatever" was still getting power and everything still looked good, no burnt/charred parts and everything still got power with his voltage meter as well.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by Jaco who?

You cannot wire an 8Ω 4x10 cab to 4Ω. CANNOT BE DONE.

Your fender speaker's 600 watt peak rating means nothing, probably means 250 watts rms, which is only a thermal rating, not the wattage where the speakers complain, which is much less.

Buy a better cab.

While I completely agree with your last sentence, Peak vs. RMS is .707. In other words, multiply peak wattage (600) times .707 and you wind up with 424.2W, not 250.

Either way, buy a new cab. Bass cabs are TUNED to their drivers. Just slapping a new set of drivers into a cab for which they are not tuned could be a mess. On the other hand, it could work great. If you are any good at that kind of stuff, swap the suckers out. But be prepared to be unimpressed. But all you have to do then is swap them back. If you are NOT any good at that kind of thing, list your cabs on CraigsList or TB classifieds and start over with something that will handle what you want it to do.

[agedhorse]

This is not an L-Pad problem (though there may be an additional problem with the L-pad).

I suggest that you find a reliable service shop to troubleshoot and repair your cabinet properly. Any Fender authorized electronics service center can handle this for you. Otherwise, I wpould suggest that you look for a new cabinet that meets your specific needs.

From your description, I do not think your existing service guy has a complete grasp on troubleshooting and repairing your speaker properly.

Originally Posted by gregmon79

I have no idea what to replace though. I plug into the fender cab and I get absolutely nothing. And I mean nothing coming out of it. The horn dial is also stuck all the way off. Before it went out on me it was cutting out when I hit a really deep sustained note and thought that it was just wires that needed to be soldered. But my guy opened er up and resolded the connections and when we put it back together and we got nothing out of it. At all. So I have no idea what to replace. He said that the "whatever" was still getting power and everything still looked good, no burnt/charred parts and everything still got power with his voltage meter as well.

[lowendrv]

Is the Fender a Bassman 410 Pro SL ?
If it is have you check the overload lamp ? Remove the input jack panel. It may still have the spare bulb that came from the factory.
Here is some instruction from Fender support.
http://support.fender.com/manuals/ba...ure_manual.pdf
This may help also.
http://support.fender.com/schematics...2008_Rev-B.pdf

[B-string]

Originally Posted by gregmon79

I have no idea what to replace though. I plug into the fender cab and I get absolutely nothing. And I mean nothing coming out of it. The horn dial is also stuck all the way off. Before it went out on me it was cutting out when I hit a really deep sustained note and thought that it was just wires that needed to be soldered. But my guy opened er up and resolded the connections and when we put it back together and we got nothing out of it. At all. So I have no idea what to replace. He said that the "whatever" was still getting power and everything still looked good, no burnt/charred parts and everything still got power with his voltage meter as well.

Originally Posted by agedhorse

This is not an L-Pad problem (though there may be an additional problem with the L-pad).

I suggest that you find a reliable service shop to troubleshoot and repair your cabinet properly. Any Fender authorized electronics service center can handle this for you. Otherwise, I wpould suggest that you look for a new cabinet that meets your specific needs.

From your description, I do not think your existing service guy has a complete grasp on troubleshooting and repairing your speaker properly.

If the "whatever" is the 10" speakers this will prove agedhorse's point. If the 10" are getting power or voltage (remember the battery test) then the voice coils in the Fender's 10" drivers are open and those speakers are dead/trash.

[gregmon79]

I agree, my "guy" isn't versed enough quite yet for this project. I will take it in to my local music store where I know foe sure they will know what they are doing/saying. Thanks so much everyone.

[JimmyM]

Good call. I'll also add that 400w power handling is pretty good for ANY standard 410 on the market. The vast majority of them will start farting out at that point or close to it anyway, regardless of what they tell you is the power handling.

[smogg]

Originally Posted by B-string

If the "whatever" is the 10" speakers this will prove agedhorse's point. If the 10" are getting power or voltage (remember the battery test) then the voice coils in the Fender's 10" drivers are open and those speakers are dead/trash.

I'm thinking this as well. Your band is just too loud for a single 8 ohm 410. Sounds to me you're just blowin cabs trying to keep up in the volume war. In an earlier post you said your GK cab is in the shop being repaired. What's the problem with it? No sound, bad/distorted sound? Could be blown speakers as well. IF it turns out that the fender has blown speakers and the GK can not keep up at current volume needs after the repair, then you need more speakers. The cheapest route may be to just get a second Identical VX 410 and run 2 X 410 vertical. Your amp has plenty of power. Or perhaps sell the VX and get a second identical GK cab. (the used market is your friend) And yes, invest in a GOOD pair of earplugs.

[B-string]

I would also place more "faith" in Hartke's ratings than ANYONE that uses "Peak" on their cabs.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by smogg

I'm thinking this as well. Your band is just too loud for a single 8 ohm 410. Sounds to me you're just blowin cabs trying to keep up in the volume war. In an earlier post you said your GK cab is in the shop being repaired. What's the problem with it? No sound, bad/distorted sound? Could be blown speakers as well. IF it turns out that the fender has blown speakers and the GK can not keep up at current volume needs after the repair, then you need more speakers. The cheapest route may be to just get a second Identical VX 410 and run 2 X 410 vertical. Your amp has plenty of power. Or perhaps sell the VX and get a second identical GK cab. (the used market is your friend) And yes, invest in a GOOD pair of earplugs.

He bought the G-K cab used and it had problems from the previous owner the music store is taking care of.