can i swap speakers for more power??

[B-string]

Not attempting to argue, which is a better "indicator" 400 watts thermal or 600 watts peak thermal?

[smogg]

Originally Posted by B-string

He bought the G-K cab used and it had problems from the previous owner the music store is taking care of.

Oh OK, then it will come down to which cab sounds best and sell off the other to get a second of the preferred cab.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by smogg

Oh OK, then it will come down to which cab sounds best and sell off the other to get a second of the preferred cab.

Agree, the only single cab solution I could recommend is a 412 or 810. Two 410's would fill the bill but this bassists funds are tight for now. We will see how the SBX Plus does when he gets it back

[tjh]

Originally Posted by gregmon79

... Before it went out on me it was cutting out when I hit a really deep sustained note ...

FWIW, there are a few very simple ways to get more volume out of your existing gear that isn't quite cutting it ...

1)... as mentioned, turn everybody else down (this is rehearsal, and professional and aspiring musicians who want to be professional realize that rehearsals are just that, a time where the music is developed, to the point it is best performed live or for recording) .. there are too many little nuances that EVERYBODY in your group is missing if the volume is so loud that ALL the parts being played are not CLEARLY heard by all ...

2) ... as mentioned, turn everybody else down (if you are still not hearing your bass clearly in the mix, or it is not capable of reaching a suitable MIX VOLUME without cutting out, or distorting, you need to adjust your EQ to reduce the lower frequencies, and you will hear it more clearly, and be able to turn louder (please dont!!) without the above indications ... or, as mentioned, turn everybody else down so that each individual component of the music can clearly be heard by everybody involved ... if you want to blast at your performances, that is one thing, but rehearsal is the time to show some maturity in your preparation ...

3) ... as mentioned, turn everybody else down (if you are in doubt as the the meaning of this, please refer to ways 1 and 2 above) ...

... congratulations, you just learned what has taken many of us old timers on here YEARS to understand, in one simple thread ... you are well on your way to big things if properly applied ...

.. JMHO, and meant in a positive, supportive manner ... BTW, if you reply to me, please do it in writing, as I have officially been diagnosed with a substantial hearing loss, and permanent tinitus ... I didn't listen either

[Warmuth]

1001Rb's are monster heads. Rare would be the 410 that could take anywhere near that amps power. If I couldn't hear myself with any functional 410 and that head though I assume it's because I'm already deaf. That's a loud band indeed.

[B-string]

BTW the way to turn down the animal playing the skins (drummer) can be thinner/lighter sticks.

[mjac28]

Originally Posted by tjh

FWIW, there are a few very simple ways to get more volume out of your existing gear that isn't quite cutting it ...

1)... as mentioned, turn everybody else down (this is rehearsal, and professional and aspiring musicians who want to be professional realize that rehearsals are just that, a time where the music is developed, to the point it is best performed live or for recording) .. there are too many little nuances that EVERYBODY in your group is missing if the volume is so loud that ALL the parts being played are not CLEARLY heard by all ...

2) ... as mentioned, turn everybody else down (if you are still not hearing your bass clearly in the mix, or it is not capable of reaching a suitable MIX VOLUME without cutting out, or distorting, you need to adjust your EQ to reduce the lower frequencies, and you will hear it more clearly, and be able to turn louder (please dont!!) without the above indications ... or, as mentioned, turn everybody else down so that each individual component of the music can clearly be heard by everybody involved ... if you want to blast at your performances, that is one thing, but rehearsal is the time to show some maturity in your preparation ...

3) ... as mentioned, turn everybody else down (if you are in doubt as the the meaning of this, please refer to ways 1 and 2 above) ...

... congratulations, you just learned what has taken many of us old timers on here YEARS to understand, in one simple thread ... you are well on your way to big things if properly applied ...

.. JMHO, and meant in a positive, supportive manner ... BTW, if you reply to me, please do it in writing, as I have officially been diagnosed with a substantial hearing loss, and permanent tinitus ... I didn't listen either

+1000 Best post yet.

[gregmon79]

Thanks B, you know me too well already haha I'm pretty sure I won't have any problems with the GK when I get it back. After hearing all the comments though, I think it may be time for a band meeting about our habits on volume. I know I usually can't hear very well up to 3 days after practice and my ears have that ring in them during that time. Also, the reason I'm worried is because the volume I'm pushing the hartke at is stressing that cab to the point that it sounds bad. Maybe this cab has issues as well. I may be going back to Sam ash with a request of them to check thier stock better before they put it out on the floor. I don't really push the cab that much when purchasing it because I get a little embarrassed I suppose. I just plug it in, turn it up a little and if it sounds good I grab it. It's partly my fault for not checking and being sure but I believe the store is supposed to do that before they resell right??!!

[B-string]

I think stores are like most used car lots. If it will play and not catch fire they let the after-sale warranty take care of any hidden troubles? JMHO anyway......

Remember the tip for the drummer: Lighter sticks.

[Warmuth]

Originally Posted by gregmon79

Thanks B, you know me too well already haha I'm pretty sure I won't have any problems with the GK when I get it back. After hearing all the comments though, I think it may be time for a band meeting about our habits on volume. I know I usually can't hear very well up to 3 days after practice and my ears have that ring in them during that time. Also, the reason I'm worried is because the volume I'm pushing the hartke at is stressing that cab to the point that it sounds bad. Maybe this cab has issues as well. I may be going back to Sam ash with a request of them to check thier stock better before they put it out on the floor. I don't really push the cab that much when purchasing it because I get a little embarrassed I suppose. I just plug it in, turn it up a little and if it sounds good I grab it. It's partly my fault for not checking and being sure but I believe the store is supposed to do that before they resell right??!!

Your head is going to make probably every 410 you try sound bad in a volume war. I can easily fart out my 412 with it.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by B-string

Not attempting to argue, which is a better "indicator" 400 watts thermal or 600 watts peak thermal?

Depends on how the person plays- if they slap and pop, peak is a major factor. If they play loud & constantly, it's a toss up. Thermal is thermal but if the player rests for any length of time, it should survive pretty well. The excursion limit is another thing to be concerned with- if they slap & pop without compression, speaker cones tend to try to move across the room without taking the cabinet and basket along for the ride. I wouldn't consider trying to make a set of speakers live through a gig if the power used was more than about half of the capability of the speakers. Part of the problem with peaks is that estimating their amplitude without minimal testing is pointless but an educated guess is that 20dB transients are easy for a bass to cause. Whether the amp can develop that kind of power is another story. If an amp is already at, or close to, max power, it will compress because the power supply will run out of juice. If the amp is designed for high dynamic headroom, it may be able to do this.

[B-string]

G-K amps tested so far by BGM have proven to have high power reserves
My point was that cab ratings are not reliable and "peak" ratings are IMHO the most worthless of the marketing terms.

[ahc]

Originally Posted by gregmon79

I know I usually can't hear very well up to 3 days after practice and my ears have that ring in them during that time.

You've already done serious and PERMANENT damage to your hearing. Get some earplugs NOW!!!

[gregmon79]

Tjh, amen brother!!! I'm going to show this post to my bandmates as I have been trying to explain these very same, simple, phylosophies to them/him for awhile now. Sometimes its very hard when you have a member that thinks he's a rock god yet has BARELY made it to a stage yet and every project he's been involved in up to this point has fallen apart. Sometimes I truly believe us bass players are the backbone that hold the whole band up and together and stay grounded enough to make the band go somewhere. BASS PLAYERS UNITE!!! Idk why I haven't joined this forum before now. Were def a brotherhood. And I'm damn proud to be a part of it.

[gregmon79]

I also forgot to mention that I, for all this time up until last week, have been pushing that fender cab with a 400 watt yorkie bassmaster. I'm sure that makes quite a difference in the way it controls what comes out of an 8 ohm cab rated at 400 watts.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by B-string

G-K amps tested so far by BGM have proven to have high power reserves
My point was that cab ratings are not reliable and "peak" ratings are IMHO the most worthless of the marketing terms.

The easiest way I have found to get the real info is by calling the company and asking for the technical department. Most will let callers through, although I'm in the audio/video business, so that may make a difference. The answers vary from company to company, but the engineers and techs aren't in the business of lying to make things sound impressive- they usually deal with facts a lot more than fiction.

The old testing procedures included pink noise for 8 hours. When they found the thermal failure range, they usually rated the driver a bit conservatively. Now, I don't know. The FTC rules have lapsed.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by gregmon79

Tjh, amen brother!!! I'm going to show this post to my bandmates as I have been trying to explain these very same, simple, phylosophies to them/him for awhile now. Sometimes its very hard when you have a member that thinks he's a rock god yet has BARELY made it to a stage yet and every project he's been involved in up to this point has fallen apart. Sometimes I truly believe us bass players are the backbone that hold the whole band up and together and stay grounded enough to make the band go somewhere. BASS PLAYERS UNITE!!! Idk why I haven't joined this forum before now. Were def a brotherhood. And I'm damn proud to be a part of it.

As ahc stated, your hearing is damaged and it doesn't come back. If you worked in a factory that was as loud, you would be given hearing protection, per OSHA and other workplace safety guidelines in other countries. My ears rang for three days exactly once and I had stuffed toilet paper in my ears because it was actually painful to leave them unplugged. It was like someone stuffed cotton in my ears for those three days and, being in the audio industry, that's a bad thing. It could have eliminated my continuing in that business. I ALWAYS carry ear plugs. ALWAYS. I don't give a crap who looks at me like I'm an old fogey, I'd rather be able to hear when I'm old and I'm on the high side of 55 now- I have ringing and some tinnitus at times, but overall, my hearing is pretty good, considering the audio levels I have been exposed to.

If your bandmates don't want to turn down, I would considering getting out while you have ears that work.

Here's a chart with OSHA noise exposure limits- this is real and if an employer fails to provide hearing protection, they risk being fined by OSHA and sued by the employee. Think about it- some of these exposure times are as short as 15 minutes and you're probably exceeding the SPL for that.

Scroll down to the chart- the graph will probably be meaningless. As you'll see, 115dB is limited to 1/4 hour PER DAY and your bass rig can exceed that without the drums & guitar(s). You guys are probably pushing over 130dB, which is immediately harmful. There's no "I'll stop in a couple of minutes", it's damaging as soon as it occurs. If your cabinet is capable of 92dB @1W 1 meter away in a semi-reverberant space, you'll hit 115 with about 100W, due to room reflections. Double the power to 200W and you'll add about 3dB, Double it to 400W and you'll add another 3dB. You're at 121dB and your drummer & guitarist haven't even started abusing you, yet. If the guitar is hitting similar levels, you'll need hearing aids by the time you hit 30.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ards&p_id=9735

[gregmon79]

I'm now convinced and believe. I'm sportin the ear plugs from now on. I've used toilet paper in the past and that worked quite well. I'll def use some kind of protection. Period.

[Downunderwonder]

You're probably within a month of getting to where I am, permanant ringing and a dip in my upper midrange hearing.

Etymotic brand are quite musical. The clear stalked ones are near invisble. Get some. Toilet paper does not cut the mustard.

[uOpt]

I think it needs to be pointed out more strongly that there is a big difference in efficiency between speakers. Just look at the spec sheets. It's more than 2x actual volume and hence makes more of a difference than getting a 2x as powerful amp.

Of course there are other considerations. Putting in 4x 10" EVMs or E110s will make it very heavy. And the cab might need structural reinforcements so that it doesn't flub.