Can a Pre + inexpensive lightweight power amp equal a Mesa M9?

WingKL · #1 09-02-2010, 11:26 PM

So I got to audition the M6 and M9 vs my Thunderfunk 500 at the local music store with my 4 ohm Acme Low B2. I liked what I heard from the M9. It was smooth, clean and deep all the way till the speakers in the B2 cried uncle, unlike the Thunderfunk, which sounded somewhat brittle when turned up. Unfortunately the M9 is pretty expensive and heavy.

My questions is, since according to the PA Pimps on TB, watts is watts, can I get that same smooth, clean and deep with some cheaper light weight class D power amp like the Carvin DCM1000L or Crown XLS1000 bridged, coupled with an appropriate preamp (with a compressor to keep the speakers from blowing up)?

babebambi · #2 09-03-2010, 12:29 PM

I think it's all in the pre; if you can find the pre you like, you are golden. Most reputable power amp sound the same to 99% of the population.

But, I don't think the M9 is heavy at 28 lb. thou. Just don't think you will get any more portable with pre/power rig. And the M9 doesn't cost much more than that TFB500.

EDIT - is that a TFB420 or TFB550 ?

rpsands · #3 09-03-2010, 12:49 PM

Given how dynamically powerful the M9 feels to me, I would recommend an XTI2000, XLS1500, or DCM1540L/2000L to be positive you match it in apparent volume.

I'd also recommend that whatever preamp you use, you have a good quality compressor./

JimmyM · #4 09-03-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

I'd also recommend that whatever preamp you use, you have a good quality compressor./

may i ask why?

WingKL · #5 09-03-2010, 01:43 PM

Yeah I knew a compressor is definitely a must at these power levels, just to keep the speakers from exploding. The one on the M9 seems to work very well.

So watts is not watts? Is there a "dynamic headroom"/power reserve that that is not specified? I may be that 1% of the population that can hear the difference between amp topologies. Eg. GK MB500 vs 700RBII.

@babebambi, It's a TFB 500 transition model between the TFB 420 and 550. It's got the +-98V voltage rail of the 550 but fewer power caps and no "tubey" switch.

rpsands · #6 09-03-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

may i ask why?

Not really a power level thing, just that the M9's compressor sounds badass and a preamp without one is gonna have a hard time copping that tone (if you use the comp).

Also, you can snag some extra apparent volume/warmth/etc a lot of times if you dial it in right. One of my favorite tone shaping pieces for sure.

**Chef** · #7 09-03-2010, 02:13 PM

boy...i ran various pre's thru a qsc/plx 2402 for years, and I gotta say...I'm way happier with the M9.
Smaller, lighter unit, in a smaller lighter rack, and it will still drive a 2 ohm load.

I'm done with pre/power/bigger rack setups.

BassmanPaul · #8 09-03-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Given how dynamically powerful the M9 feels to me, I would recommend an XTI2000, XLS1500, or DCM1540L/2000L to be positive you match it in apparent volume.

I'd also recommend that whatever preamp you use, you have a good quality compressor./

Into a 350W speaker cabinet?? Asking for trouble that is! And a high pass filter would be more appropriate than a compressor.

Paul

JimmyM · #9 09-03-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Not really a power level thing, just that the M9's compressor sounds badass and a preamp without one is gonna have a hard time copping that tone (if you use the comp).

you're kidding! someone made an onboard compressor that's worth a crap? i'll believe it when i see it, but if this is true, all i can is it's about time!

**Chef** · #10 09-03-2010, 02:22 PM

it seems to work well enough for me, though i do have to say i don't have tons of compressor experience, and have never been a regular user of one.
mostly cause they suck

koobie · #11 09-03-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingKL

Yeah I knew a compressor is definitely a must at these power levels, just to keep the speakers from exploding. The one on the M9 seems to work very well.

The only thing you really need to "keep the speakers from exploding" is a light touch on the master volume control.

And my .02 worth regarding your original question, I'd stick with the M9 if you like the tone. Mesa has the best after the sales support of any of the m.i. companies, period. But if you want a particularly different tone from what the M9 delivers, say a warmer, fatter tube-type tone, then you might want to explore the world of dedicated tube preamps & power amps.

Jim C · #12 09-03-2010, 02:26 PM

IMO by the time you bought a good preamp (say $250 for a Sans Amp; $450 used for SVP-CL, or big$$$ for channel trip) a power amp, a compressor and a rack case, the M9 is a bargain, maybe lighter, and easier to sell if you change your mind.

**Chef** · #13 09-03-2010, 02:27 PM

what jim said.

rpsands · #14 09-03-2010, 02:48 PM

I'd consider a pedal setup into an XLS1500. Could easily get out for 700 bucks if you shop around and call up the music stores and haggle. I never, ever get less than 15% off from Music123.

RickenBoogie · #15 09-03-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim C

IMO by the time you bought a good preamp (say $250 for a Sans Amp; $450 used for SVP-CL, or big$$$ for channel trip) a power amp, a compressor and a rack case, the M9 is a bargain, maybe lighter, and easier to sell if you change your mind.

another big +1 here. Besides, no matter what you put together, it'll never sound exactly like the Mesa. They use magic bass dust in their amps. That can't be duplicated.

lomo · #16 09-03-2010, 07:13 PM

IMO your better off with the M9. By the time you buy a decent compressor, pre and power setup you'll have spent almost as much, and it probably will not sound the same. I was not one for any compression before my M9, but now I use it and love it. Save up and buy the beast you KNOW will breathe the fire you're looking for. Just my .02

sunbeast · #17 09-03-2010, 09:32 PM

I have to admit that I don't have a whole lot of experience with amps in the realm of the M6/M9, but I know that it has a pretty unique voice to it that has made my basses sound like they never have before through anything else (certainly much different than expensive DI's and recording soundboards I've plugged into- so not really "flat" at all to my ears, Mesa is not known for "flat" sounding amps!). If you are really into "that" tone, I don't think you're going to find anything else that will cop it to any satisfying degree. And as everyone else has said- you're not likely to assemble anything similar that will really weigh all that much less and still have all the same functionality as the M9. And not in just 2 rack spaces either!

tombowlus · #18 09-03-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunbeast

I have to admit that I don't have a whole lot of experience with amps in the realm of the M6/M9, but I know that it has a pretty unique voice to it that has made my basses sound like they never have before through anything else (certainly much different than expensive DI's and recording soundboards I've plugged into- so not really "flat" at all to my ears, Mesa is not known for "flat" sounding amps!). If you are really into "that" tone, I don't think you're going to find anything else that will cop it to any satisfying degree. And as everyone else has said- you're not likely to assemble anything similar that will really weigh all that much less and still have all the same functionality as the M9. And not in just 2 rack spaces either!

Mesa/Boogie, by their own admission, has never striven to produce a "flat" amplifier. They shoot for "musical' amp, and seem to have their own secret recipe for exactly what that means. While I certainly do appreciate a number of amps that do shoot for a more "flat" or neutral presentation, I must admit that pretty much whatever they cook up out there in Petaluma seems to satisfy my tastes quite well.

I am a big fan of the M9, and while I don't typically gig with compression, I will say that the on board compressor is a cut above what can be found on most other heads. However, for those who eschew compression, if you also find yourself digging the tone of the M9 without needing to tweak the graphic EQ, then I have to give more props to the M6. I have never felt like I needed more volume/headroom on a gig with the M6, and I barely use the tone controls. Just sayin'...

sunbeast · #19 09-04-2010, 12:27 AM

I have to agree- I've loved all their amps that I've had the pleasure to spend time with, and each has a very definite character that I'd guess a person will either love or hate! I've especially come to appreciate the weird Mesa "passive" midrange control- on both the M6 and Walkabout it has been my most used tool (especially in conjunction with the "voice" control on the M6).

Crabby · #20 09-04-2010, 02:07 AM

I agree with the others that the M9 has everything you need and only takes up 2 rack spaces. I had a Navigator/QSC setup for a few years and the M9 beats the pants of that rig in so many ways. The M9 just sounds better hands down. I don't miss anything about the old rig. I also love how simple my setup is with the Carbine in a 3 space rack and a vent panel.