Can Y'all help me design a 1X15 bass cab? Please?

[davearonow]

Hi, first post here.

anyway, so I have this speaker..


Electro-Voice DL15ST 400-Watt 15 Low Frequency Speaker Specifications:

Frequenponse (-3dB): 45 - 2000 Hz
Sensitivity 1W/1m: 95 dB
Max. SPL / 1m (calc); full space: 121 dB
System Power Handling (continuous/program/peak): 400/800/1600Watts
Nominal Impedance (Passive): 8 Ohms
Chassis Size: 15 inches
Speaker Type: Components
Weight Net: 6.9 kg (15.21 lbs )

I use a 4 string fender p-bass with SD quarter pounders

A Trace Elliot GP12 preamp

A crown powerbass 2 for power

some other rackmount goodies that dont matter much as far as tone

And I always keep brand new GHS Bass Boomers (Flea Sig specs) on my bass.

I tend to go for a nice bright sound generally speaking, sometimes use a pic, but prefer to go for a pic-like tone using my fingers.


I use standard tuning mostly but with about 25% of my playing in drop D

On to the Cabinet:

I would like to optimize the speaker/cab to cover as much of a frequency range as possible, I realize that nothing can do it all, but if I had to lean toward one end or the other, I would tend to go for the brighter end of what this speaker is capable of.

Why this speaker? I already have one, they are easily accesable to me for a great price re-coned with a decent warrantee and they are in my price range.



anyway, how do I calculate:

the volume of the cabinet

the shape of the cabinet

If, where, size and depth of port I might want to use and why I would or would not want them.

how do you "tune" a cabinet using ports?



Id like the cab to be on the smaller side of the range of possibilites but size is one thing I am willing to comprimise in order to achieve more of the other factors.

I would also like to keep it a mostly rectangular shape because I want to be able to add/stack cabs as I continue to build the rig as more cabs are eventually added. I plan on just sticking with the 1 X 15 design and not coupling it with any other config'd cabs, so this one cab style has to maximize what I am looking for as close as possible and will be the basic component of an eventual larger rig., so lets just say, if you HAD to use all 1 x 15's, how would you do it?

Right now I am using a Hartke Amp and 2 Hartke 4 X 10 cabs and I am not digging it, and wont be using that rig anymore.

I always loved the sound I got out of my old rig which was 2
2 x 15 cabs but I wanted to do something similar only with 1X15's this time.

Anyone with experience or knowledge that can help, I would appreciate it so much that I will buy y'all all a round of drinks at my next gig. I play in a country band called Adrian Ray out of Tampa FL. We will be at Boots n Buckles in Lakeland next week opening for Lee Brice. So Y'all like ice in your water? Ha!



Thanks, and let me know if you need any more info than this.

[Mr. Foxen]

You'll need the Thiele small specification for this driver, then plug it into this: http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro, if you are lucky they are already in it. This will simulate various sizes of box and ports, to tune the low end, it isn't so great for predicting highs, but if it rolls off loads in the highs, it indicates your speaker isn't what you are after. This probably would work best with a midrange and a crossover, but if you are getting that complicated, might as well make a fearful from the plans in the wiki.

You probably won't get a bright sound out of this speaker, if its rated at 2k tops, although that rating means little, its usually optimistic, and 2k is not into 'bright' territory.

[davearonow]

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

You'll need the Thiele small specification for this driver, then plug it into this: http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro, if you are lucky they are already in it. This will simulate various sizes of box and ports, to tune the low end, it isn't so great for predicting highs, but if it rolls off loads in the highs, it indicates your speaker isn't what you are after. This probably would work best with a midrange and a crossover, but if you are getting that complicated, might as well make a fearful from the plans in the wiki.

You probably won't get a bright sound out of this speaker, if its rated at 2k tops, although that rating means little, its usually optimistic, and 2k is not into 'bright' territory.

Well, it will probably compliment all the other overcompensation I do to achieve brightness such as constant new strings, etc, and probably help round it out in the end. This is why I was saying "as much as this speaker is capable" so in otherwords, whatever this speaker is able to do as far as brightness of tone, that is more the end of the scale I am shooting for.

Ill check out the calculator you mentioned. I am having a hard time figuring out all those calculators though. I wish someone would just tell me in words I can understand " Dude, you need this size and shape cab, and you need this size and depth port and you are done. I was hoping someone may have already come up with a design that is pretty close to what I am looking for. Ill give your suggestion a look. Thanks.

[Mr. Foxen]

I've had a quick look and it is a speaker for PA subs, so it won't have much mid or top, and isn't unlikely to have weird peaks and such in the higher response as it isn't really intended to receive anything higher than the crossover point on the PA. The cab required for it to work properly is probably going to be very big.

So: Dude, get a different speaker, possibly from Eminence who include suggested cabinet designs.

[gregoire1]

or...just build a sealed box, of the size of your choosing, and see how it sounds. Thats how I built my first cab, and it sounded fine. Theres no other way to predict how it will sound, and tone is so subjective anyway. If you really wanted to be creative, I'd build the box with a removable baffle, the experiment with various tunings. That way you can always "undue" any over-zealous portings.

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by gregoire1

or...just build a sealed box, of the size of your choosing, and see how it sounds. Thats how I built my first cab, and it sounded fine. Theres no other way to predict how it will sound, and tone is so subjective anyway. If you really wanted to be creative, I'd build the box with a removable baffle, the experiment with various tunings. That way you can always "undue" any over-zealous portings.

There are plenty of ways to predict how things will sound.

If you want to mess with port tuning, best way if to use two pipes sleeved, so it is telescopic and you can adjust the tuning.

[gbarchus]

EV TL606

http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Builders%20Plans/

Gale

[Rumblee]

yep. what gale said

[davearonow]

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

There are plenty of ways to predict how things will sound.

If you want to mess with port tuning, best way if to use two pipes sleeved, so it is telescopic and you can adjust the tuning.

A telescopic port is a GREAT idea.

But not knowing the foundations of cabinet design theory, I need some more help first.

But back to cabinet size and dimentions....

I am not getting any help from winISD. For example, it lists the optimum cabinet width for this 15 inch speaker at 15 inches for cabinet width. I know that cant be right.

so should I just wing a cab size, and then just experiment with port tunings as suggested? I am not completely talked out of using some other type cab in conjunction with this one if I just cant get enough brightness out of this one, such as adding a 2X10 cab with it. I WOULD REALLY like to try to use this speaker for at least part of the rig because I have it sitting here and dont want to buy another speaker right now if I can help it. So, once again, can anyone help me with some basic rectangular cabinet dimentions that you "think" would work well with some sort of adjustable telescoping 4" port?

Please?

Im giving up trying to figure it out and am probably just going to build some sort of box anyway, blindly winging it, but if Y'all could dial me in with some experience based theory that would at least get me closer than I could by just guessing, that would be awesome.

as it sits, I DO have an old equiptment rack that I hand built that came out really nice that I would LOVE to sacrifice as a rack, pull the rails out and try to retro renovate it to be used as a cab for this speaker.

The internal Cabinet dimentions are:

Width 19 & 3/16"
Height 28 & 7/8"
Depth 19 & 3/ 16"

As the cab sits now, I dont hardly use it for a rack anymore, it holds at least 12 spaces of rack gear + a 4 space sliding drawer, and I have almost nothing mounted in it right now. I just dont use it and would happily rip the rails out of it and sacrifice it for a speaker cabinet.

Could one of you audio geen...... jeinyee.... genyes........ uh... really smart people start throwing some reasonable cabinet dimentions at me that might work for this speaker.

\Last important tidbit is, IF, I am able to use this existing cab of which I speak, I am assuming it is probably too big as it sits, and because as it sits right now it is open back and front, the easiest dimention to trim if reducing volume is neccessary would be to trim depth.

so working with the given width and height dimentions, can someone PUHLEESE help me get some reasonable dimentions?

The guy at the speaker exchange where I bought this speaker said it would be similar in specs to an Eminence Kappa, but there is more than one type of 15 inch Kappa listed in winISD, and he didnt say which one, and aside from that, I am not even very confident he knew what in the heck he was even talking about now. I dont really trust his suggestions.

Really sorry for this long winded post, but I SURE would appreciate some help with this.

Oh, and one more small question, if you please?

Generally speaking, how does increasing the overall volume of a cab affect the tone, say on the warmness/brightness scale, or is it more of a volume thing that would change, or is it more of a frequency response thing? I am not talking about huge dimentional changes, just small ones, say adding an inch or two in any of the three dimentions. Theoretically, how does increasing the volume specifically alter the cabinet's tone, volume, or frequency response.

question # 2 is the same as question one, but applied to port width and depth instead of cabinet dimentions.

does increasing the port diameter lower or raise frequency response, volume, or brightness?
And same question for the length of the port tube?

If I at least had some very basic understanding of how these variables altered those parameters, my complete wild guesses could at least be steered a little more in the right direction.

BIG THANKS for those of you patient enough to even get this far through this post.

I had absolutely ZERO idea building a cabinet was this complicated or dependent on dimentions. I thought it was pretty much going to be, build a pretty box and slap a speaker in it, and play bass.

[davearonow]

Originally Posted by gbarchus

EV TL606

http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Builders%20Plans/

Gale

Checking out this link now. Thanks.

[muddycreek]

Here's your manual:

http://www.electrovoice.com/sitefile...Woofer_EDS.pdf

That's a pretty reasonable driver.

The manual recommends a 1.8' enclosure tuned to 55hz, and knowing that, you can get port size/length from winisd. Might be a good place to start.

The manual recommends a 1.8'

[Mr. Foxen]

Work off total cab volume, and try not to have any sides the same length.

Bigger box generally means bigger bottom end up to a paint, generally a box is vast before it gets too big.

Use WinISD pro, not the earlier version, as it is quite a lot more helpful. And use the specs for the driver you have, even if you have to enter them yourself.

Your equipment rack will likely work best as an equipment rack, make a box from scratch, maybe rob some hardware from the rack.

[davearonow]

Originally Posted by muddycreek

Here's your manual:

http://www.electrovoice.com/sitefile...Woofer_EDS.pdf

That's a pretty reasonable driver.

The manual recommends a 1.8' enclosure tuned to 55hz, and knowing that, you can get port size/length from winisd. Might be a good place to start.

The manual recommends a 1.8'

Maybe I am just missing something here. Yes, I have seen this spec sheet already and it just doesnt seem right. How can a 1.8 cubic feet possibly be right for a 15 inch speaker?

That seems WAY too small?

Are you sure they are suggesting that actual dimention for this specific speaker, and not using that 1.8 spec/guidline as a general example for cabinet designs?


Typical Amplifier Size
400-800 watts per woofer is the optimal amplifier size. Amplifiers of this
size will allow maximum output with minimal risk of speaker damage
when properly used. Smaller amplifiers can also be used with excellent
results.
Typical Enclosures
The most extended bass, lowest distortion and best control is usually
realized in properly designed vented enclosures. In such designs, the
vent, or port, actually provides the lowest octave of output. The vent is
driven to full acoustic output by a relatively small motion of the speaker
cone itself, acting through the air contained within the enclosure. The
excursion of the DL15ST at these frequencies is much reduced
compared to sealed or open-back enclosures, directly reducing harmonic
distortion and the possibility of speaker bottoming. Thiele-Small
parameters are provided so designers can tailor the response to suit
their needs.
Normally Tuned Enclosures
A 1.8 cubic-foot enclosure tuned to 55 Hz has a smooth extended
response to below 50 Hz. The 1.1 cubic-foot enclosure “bumps up”
above 70 Hz but has less extended low-bass output.umps up” above
70 Hz but has less extended low-bass output.

[Jaco who?]

Originally Posted by davearonow

I am not getting any help from winISD. For example, it lists the optimum cabinet width for this 15 inch speaker at 15 inches for cabinet width. I know that cant be right.

You need to input a board thickness or else it comes up with goofy dimensions. I select "0.47" and get 16.43 width with a cubic ft. of 2.065. You can mess around with height width and depth all you want as long as you end up with the correct volume and it's not shaped like a cube; for some reason that's a no no, but someone with more background in this stuff would be able to explain why.