Can you enlighten me on why my Orange head blew my TC amp?

[CurlyPearly]

Heyo,

Welcome, my first post. I'm a drummer and hang out over at DFO usually, so please pardon any ignorance (and keep the razzing to a minimum). My bro is the bassist, I wanted to post for him since he's busy with school and we need to act fast.

Anyway, he lives out in Austin and recently saved his pennies up for a new combo. He picked the Orange Terror Bass 500 head and the TC Electronic BC210 cab.

http://www.orangeamps.com/products.a...on=View&ID=114

http://www.tcelectronic.com/bc210.asp

The first head he got blew up and Orange warrantied it. Then, just last Saturday, his cab went.

When he was shopping, I told him he needed to get a cab to match the output of the head, but I am no bass guy, as I mentioned, and the sales guy at Bass Emporium ATX told him the TC BC210 would work for the head and be a great combo.

SO, long story short, the cab blew and the guys at bass emporium are passing the buck. I'm trying to decide if this is a warranty issue, or just a bad sale to an unsuspecting bassist. My bro is good, but certainly not a gear head like me when it comes to instruments.

From the settings below, can any of you all tell me what happened with the cab and if this was simply a case of matching a head and cab that clearly weren't appropriate for each other?

Set at 8 ohms
Gain on head was up only a 1/4
Bass, mid at 50%, treble ab 60%
Volume on head was between 50-60%
Gain on MXR M80 was up 90%; clean volume at 50%, distorted at 75%, gate was on

[Jason P Bass]

Well, you have a speaker with a max power rating of 250W and an amp with a max output rating of 500W. This certainly has the potential for a blown speaker cabinet, but he should have heard the speakers struggling before it died. They would make a horrible distortion-type noise before death - and possibly only for a few seconds before the end. Did anybody notice this?

Using a 500W head with a 250W cabinet is not, by itself, a problem for which you could blame the salesmen, in my opinion. I use a 1350W amp with a 1000W rated cabinet, for example, and I'm certain I could blow up my speakers, but I would be using the rig way outside the normal operating range to do it.

My guess would be that the 1st amp had a normal manufacturing problem, supported by warranty, while the cabinet was killed by too much power. This is just a guess, take no offense.

- also, while it's good that the amp wasn't dimed, that does not necessarily mean that it was NOT putting out close to 500W.

[ishouldbeking]

Originally Posted by CurlyPearly

Heyo,

Welcome, my first post. I'm a drummer and hang out over at DFO usually, so please pardon any ignorance (and keep the razzing to a minimum). My bro is the bassist, I wanted to post for him since he's busy with school and we need to act fast.

Anyway, he lives out in Austin and recently saved his pennies up for a new combo. He picked the Orange Terror Bass 500 head and the TC Electronic BC210 cab.

http://www.orangeamps.com/products.a...on=View&ID=114

http://www.tcelectronic.com/bc210.asp

The first head he got blew up and Orange warrantied it. Then, just last Saturday, his cab went.

When he was shopping, I told him he needed to get a cab to match the output of the head, but I am no bass guy, as I mentioned, and the sales guy at Bass Emporium ATX told him the TC BC210 would work for the head and be a great combo.

SO, long story short, the cab blew and the guys at bass emporium are passing the buck. I'm trying to decide if this is a warranty issue, or just a bad sale to an unsuspecting bassist. My bro is good, but certainly not a gear head like me when it comes to instruments.

From the settings below, can any of you all tell me what happened with the cab and if this was simply a case of matching a head and cab that clearly weren't appropriate for each other?

Set at 8 ohms
Gain on head was up only a 1/4
Bass, mid at 50%, treble ab 60%
Volume on head was between 50-60%
Gain on MXR M80 was up 90%; clean volume at 50%, distorted at 75%, gate was on

Unfortunately the wattage ratings on both amps and cabs only tell part of the story in terms of what will blow a cabinet. Basically, the key is to pay attention to the gear, and if it seems like its struggling for any reason, you back down the volume. I'm not familiar with either piece of gear, but having the head set at 50-60% total volume actually sounds like it would be cranking out some serious juice. For example, at gig volume, I run my Mesa Walkabout (which is only 300 watts) usually around 9:00 or below (meaning less than 25% of total volume). Given the knob positions mean less than the way the gain and volume knobs interact, and I'm not familiar with the Orange head, honestly.

Depending on the style of music and your volume requirements, the simple truth is that a 210 might not be a big enough cab to get you where you need to be. In this case it seems like it wasn't. If you're playing rock or anything that gets somewhat loud, I'd be looking at a 410, 212, or larger to get you comfortably into the right volume zone.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by CurlyPearly

Heyo,

Welcome, my first post. I'm a drummer and hang out over at DFO usually, so please pardon any ignorance (and keep the razzing to a minimum). My bro is the bassist, I wanted to post for him since he's busy with school and we need to act fast.

Anyway, he lives out in Austin and recently saved his pennies up for a new combo. He picked the Orange Terror Bass 500 head and the TC Electronic BC210 cab.

http://www.orangeamps.com/products.a...on=View&ID=114

http://www.tcelectronic.com/bc210.asp

The first head he got blew up and Orange warrantied it. Then, just last Saturday, his cab went.

When he was shopping, I told him he needed to get a cab to match the output of the head, but I am no bass guy, as I mentioned, and the sales guy at Bass Emporium ATX told him the TC BC210 would work for the head and be a great combo.

SO, long story short, the cab blew and the guys at bass emporium are passing the buck. I'm trying to decide if this is a warranty issue, or just a bad sale to an unsuspecting bassist. My bro is good, but certainly not a gear head like me when it comes to instruments.

From the settings below, can any of you all tell me what happened with the cab and if this was simply a case of matching a head and cab that clearly weren't appropriate for each other?

Set at 8 ohms
Gain on head was up only a 1/4
Bass, mid at 50%, treble ab 60%
Volume on head was between 50-60%
Gain on MXR M80 was up 90%; clean volume at 50%, distorted at 75%, gate was on

Could you hear him from Austin just before the magic smoke came out?.
I think he needs to expand his amplification to the level of his expectation.
If you use this much to make that much it will last a bit longer:

[seamonkey]

A cabinet rated at 250W is probably going to max out at 125W - just not get any louder past 125w put into it.

Even if you don't crank the head - it's still possible for it to output its full 500w
Rule of thumb (flame suit on) do like combo manufacturers do - the speakers are rated at 2x what the amplifier puts out. 250w 8 ohm cabinet should be hooked up to a 125w @ 8 ohm head.

[seanm]

Did he have the same cab plugged into the Orange head that blew up? That could have seriously damaged the cab.

[Calaverasgrande]

Yeah, espeically when you are running overdrive into a head like an orange which tailors to overdrive sounds. You are raising the average level. The fuzz/OD box acts like a compressor. So when your amps input and master may be relatively low, the OD box overcomes those knobs settings.
Too bad to hear about your gear woes. I am looking at one of those terror bass jobs as a backup amp.

[ishouldbeking]

this situation gets a bit trickier when you factor in effects and whatever bass he's using. If you're using a really hot signal hitting the front end of your amp, that could be juicing up an already loud setting on your amp. I'm not that familiar with the M80 pedal, but those volume settings sound pretty high.

there are basically two things to be careful of when you're trying not to blow speakers... turning up the volume too high and/or boosting the low end too much. both eat up a lot of wattage from your amp, and both require your speakers to move more.

the main thing to take from all this: don't assume it's safe to turn everything up all the way, and when in doubt, err on the side of caution.

[Vanceman]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Rule of thumb (flame suit on) do like combo manufacturers do - the speakers are rated at 2x what the amplifier puts out. 250w 8 ohm cabinet should be hooked up to a 125w @ 8 ohm head.

This does makes sense from a thermal standpoint.

OP, did the cab just stop making sound, possibly indicating a melted voice coil, or was there horrible distortion and farting before it stopped working?

[Growly Lytes]

I dont know but when i ran my amp that was rated less then my 4x10 & 115 combined it struggled.So i got a stronger amp & it solved the problem just like that.I got the same watts but no struggling cabs anymore.
The advice about using the same wattge as the cabs is good advice id say' or even power more for extra headroom.
The trick is paying close attention.If you can hear that theres something not right you know that the settings have to be adjusted.

[JB36]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I do have an Acme B2 and a Terror. I've pushed it about 60% master volume and 10% gain and I feel like anymore is too much for most 2x10s. A 2x10 is fine if your will the accept it's limitations. I think more is cab is needed if you really want max volume from a Terror safely. This seems like bad advice to me. This cab has a power handling of 250 and not the 400 of the the TC RS 2x10. This head puts out 500 watts into either 8 or 4 ohms while most other heads are 250 at 8 ohms. I'd be looking for the salesman who gave out this advice for some recourse if possible.

[prd004]

In my experience, which I admit is minimal, Orange stuff blows all the time.

[Munjibunga]

How loud was he trying to play when the cab blew up? A 250-watt 210 is not really good for loud, and some people might be tempted to try to get more volume out of it than it can provide. That's when having an amp that can push twice the watts of the cab's rating can get dicey, especially if the player doesn't understand his gear's limitations.

I have played through rigs with amps that could easily overpower my cabs for over 20 years, and have never blown a speaker. But I know when to quit turning up the volume. At the first fart, I back it off and the volume never goes any higher. If that happens too much, I buy new gear that is suitable to meet my volume requirements.

[mrtn400]

I think it's very probable that the cab took some serious abuse when the head died.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by CurlyPearly

Heyo,

Welcome, my first post. I'm a drummer and hang out over at DFO usually, so please pardon any ignorance (and keep the razzing to a minimum). My bro is the bassist, I wanted to post for him since he's busy with school and we need to act fast.

Anyway, he lives out in Austin and recently saved his pennies up for a new combo. He picked the Orange Terror Bass 500 head and the TC Electronic BC210 cab.

http://www.orangeamps.com/products.a...on=View&ID=114

http://www.tcelectronic.com/bc210.asp

The first head he got blew up and Orange warrantied it. Then, just last Saturday, his cab went.

When he was shopping, I told him he needed to get a cab to match the output of the head, but I am no bass guy, as I mentioned, and the sales guy at Bass Emporium ATX told him the TC BC210 would work for the head and be a great combo.

SO, long story short, the cab blew and the guys at bass emporium are passing the buck. I'm trying to decide if this is a warranty issue, or just a bad sale to an unsuspecting bassist. My bro is good, but certainly not a gear head like me when it comes to instruments.

From the settings below, can any of you all tell me what happened with the cab and if this was simply a case of matching a head and cab that clearly weren't appropriate for each other?

Set at 8 ohms
Gain on head was up only a 1/4
Bass, mid at 50%, treble ab 60%
Volume on head was between 50-60%
Gain on MXR M80 was up 90%; clean volume at 50%, distorted at 75%, gate was on

from here i'd say your brother asked too much from his cabinet....loud in the showroom does not necessarily translate to loud in a band situation.....the upside is that the lessons learned here are not in the middle of a gig..... i would not blame the sales guy..... fix the 2x10,and add another stacked vertically.....that adds up to a 4 ohm load,and enough speaker area to do the job.....

[Sartori]

He used a 500 watt amplifier from a company that sort of caters to overdriven sounds through a small cab rated for 250 watts. You might do well to keep in mind that cab wattage ratings are often on the rather generous side. The speakers might get blown due to overexcursion before you get anywhere near 250 watts.

[ishouldbeking]

If I remember correctly, the orange actually has a switch where you can choose your ohm setting, right? meaning, the 8 ohm cab was actually receiving up to the full 500 watts rms, and possibly/probably much higher when you factor in peak settings, which, since there's an MXR M80 being used at a high volume setting, you're probably sending a lot of firepower into a pretty small cab.

If you wanted to be safer, you should be able to run the orange head at 4 ohms but still use the single 8 ohm cab. By doing so you'd be cutting the available wattage quite a bit, and this could help you operate it within a safe range.

though honestly a bigger cab seems like the best solution.

[svtb15]

Ahh Claire Bros S4 cabs... i used one of those many years ago for bass.. late 70s it was .. but it needed two BGW amps to power it..

Originally Posted by Bassmec

[RickenBoogie]

Yes, a case of asking a 210 to do the job of a 410, or more. Loud meand the need for adequate spkrs, and a 2x10 is in no way adequate.

[Spinal Tapper]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

from here i'd say your brother asked too much from his cabinet....loud in the showroom does not necessarily translate to loud in a band situation.....the upside is that the lessons learned here are not in the middle of a gig..... i would not blame the sales guy..... fix the 2x10,and add another stacked vertically.....that adds up to a 4 ohm load,and enough speaker area to do the job.....

+1

Get the 2x10 cab fixed, or sell it (or both), and get two 8 ohm cabs.

Maybe add a 15" or a 4x10 to that 2x10 and you'll have a better rig for rocking loud