Can you go from preamp->eq->power amp without using effects loop?

[u84six]

Just curious if anyone has gone directly from the preamp out to the eq and then to the power amp. Some preamps don't have effects loop, so is this a common configuration?

I'm also really surprised at the prices of some of these equalizer units (i.e. thousands). Does the sound they produce really make all that much of a difference? Wow!!

[carl h.]

yes
And I believe it is the sounds they do NOT produce which is the difference.

[B-string]

Myself, if you need an eq that bad, you have bigger trouble. BUT, that is just me

[u84six]

Originally Posted by B-string

Myself, if you need an eq that bad, you have bigger trouble. BUT, that is just me

I don't need one bad. I was just curious in case I wanted to add one.

[IvanMike]

Most rack mount EQs will take that line level signal just fine, but if your preamp has a master volume control - you could run into clipping issues if you keep changing it.

Why don't you want to use the loop?

[Bob C]

What IvanMike said. An EQ after your preamp will add one more variable of gain structure.

Alternatively, you could put the EQ before your preamp. It depends on the controls of your particular unit and whether you fiddle with them, versus "set-and-forget".

And if an equalizer is $1000, it's probably a studio unit that you don't want or need.

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by u84six

Just curious if anyone has gone directly from the preamp out to the eq and then to the power amp. Some preamps don't have effects loop, so is this a common configuration?

I'm also really surprised at the prices of some of these equalizer units (i.e. thousands). Does the sound they produce really make all that much of a difference? Wow!!

In some cases, most definitely yes. IN some cases, it's purely subjective and subtle.

Originally Posted by carl h.

yes
And I believe it is the sounds they do NOT produce which is the difference.

Partially...good ones have very little artifacts...I've tried a BUNCH of them with my Summit/Berg IP rig.

Originally Posted by IvanMike

Most rack mount EQs will take that line level signal just fine, but if your preamp has a master volume control - you could run into clipping issues if you keep changing it.

Why don't you want to use the loop?

Sometimes there is no loop, and sometimes it sounds better outside of the loop. In my own case, I run my compressor in the loop, but the EQ is in line after the pre and before the Reverb. So the final gain on the pre is only used to set the input gain on the EQ...the final gain on the EQ is only to set the input gain on the Reverb unit (Lexicon MPX1). And the final volume control in my system is the volume control on the Lexicon. I've tried every iteration, and this is what sounds best.

Originally Posted by Bob C

What IvanMike said. An EQ after your preamp will add one more variable of gain structure.

Alternatively, you could put the EQ before your preamp. It depends on the controls of your particular unit and whether you fiddle with them, versus "set-and-forget".

And if an equalizer is $1000, it's probably a studio unit that you don't want or need.

A matter of opinion. I tried a $400.00 Ashley 15 band graphic in my system - noisy, and sounded like crap (IMHO). I also tried this:

Summit Audio - FeQ-50

Which sounded really good but quite subtle, and this:

Products

which sounded great, but again, quite subtle....and this:

JDK Audio by API R24 - 2 Channel 4-Band Equalizer | VintageKing.com

which sounded just OK, not great, and was very, very subtle; and I tried this:

API 5500 Stereo/Dual Mono 550 EQs with Range Switch

which is what the ultimate gearhead Anthony Jackson uses, and I can see (and hear) why. This unit is simply magical. The EQ is NOT an effect here, it becomes a PART OF the sound...incredible, extremely powerful, you want to use it VERY sparingly, and is the greatest EQ unit in the history of the world, IMHO, or at least of the ones I've tried. Incredible thing, which is why it costs $2500.00. I can't afford one (yet)...waiting till I'm rich and famous.

And for now, I use a STEREO version this one, called a 2240:

Introduction

Which sounds very good (not as good as the API, however), and is EXTREMELY powerful; four bands of +/- 20dB EQ, and bandwidth from 2 octaves to 1/10th of an octave (which would be as fine as a 100 band graphic eq if that existed).

EQ is important to get the sound you're after in a wide variety of acoustic environments. My rig sounds great flat; unfortunately, a lot of rooms I play in don't.

Cheers,
Cameron

[u84six]

My pre doesn't have a master volume, only gain, so I don't think it will be a problem. Can any of you guys recommend a fairly good, inexpensive eq that can be mounted on a 1u rack space?

[IvanMike]

inexpensive = tone suck. everything you put your signal through will have an impact on it. Cheap electronics tend to impact the tone in a negative way. Even quality units will have some kind of impact. I prefer a unit that you can defeat (true bypass is best).

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by u84six

My pre doesn't have a master volume, only gain, so I don't think it will be a problem. Can any of you guys recommend a fairly good, inexpensive eq that can be mounted on a 1u rack space?

what's the rest of your rig? Amp/speakers, etc...

Cheers,
Cameron

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by IvanMike

Why don't you want to use the loop?

A separate 5 band parametric between pre and power amp lets me adjust eq for stage conditions w/o changing the signal feeding FOH.

That's handy if you have a particular preamp tone dialed in on a unit that has some color. Now you can feed the house board well crafted and consistent tone from gig to gig, while remaining able to perform triage on your stage sound.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Bassflute

In some cases, most definitely yes. IN some cases, it's purely subjective and subtle.



Partially...good ones have very little artifacts...I've tried a BUNCH of them with my Summit/Berg IP rig.



Sometimes there is no loop, and sometimes it sounds better outside of the loop. In my own case, I run my compressor in the loop, but the EQ is in line after the pre and before the Reverb. So the final gain on the pre is only used to set the input gain on the EQ...the final gain on the EQ is only to set the input gain on the Reverb unit (Lexicon MPX1). And the final volume control in my system is the volume control on the Lexicon. I've tried every iteration, and this is what sounds best.





A matter of opinion. I tried a $400.00 Ashley 15 band graphic in my system - noisy, and sounded like crap (IMHO). I also tried this:

Summit Audio - FeQ-50

Which sounded really good but quite subtle, and this:

Products

which sounded great, but again, quite subtle....and this:

JDK Audio by API R24 - 2 Channel 4-Band Equalizer | VintageKing.com

which sounded just OK, not great, and was very, very subtle; and I tried this:

API 5500 Stereo/Dual Mono 550 EQs with Range Switch

which is what the ultimate gearhead Anthony Jackson uses, and I can see (and hear) why. This unit is simply magical. The EQ is NOT an effect here, it becomes a PART OF the sound...incredible, extremely powerful, you want to use it VERY sparingly, and is the greatest EQ unit in the history of the world, IMHO, or at least of the ones I've tried. Incredible thing, which is why it costs $2500.00. I can't afford one (yet)...waiting till I'm rich and famous.

And for now, I use a STEREO version this one, called a 2240:

Introduction

Which sounds very good (not as good as the API, however), and is EXTREMELY powerful; four bands of +/- 20dB EQ, and bandwidth from 2 octaves to 1/10th of an octave (which would be as fine as a 100 band graphic eq if that existed).

EQ is important to get the sound you're after in a wide variety of acoustic environments. My rig sounds great flat; unfortunately, a lot of rooms I play in don't.

Cheers,
Cameron

Nice rig, Cameron!

I'd love to assemble a half-width rack rig in a shallow effects rack using the same Summit products you're using.

Do you know of a half-width PEQ comparable to the TCE unit you're using?

[runmikeyrun]

Originally Posted by IvanMike

inexpensive = tone suck. everything you put your signal through will have an impact on it. Cheap electronics tend to impact the tone in a negative way. Even quality units will have some kind of impact. I prefer a unit that you can defeat (true bypass is best).

I've seen used 2x15 1U eqs at guitar center used for as little as $30. They had a DBX there a few weeks ago. search their used gear.

FWIW I had a generic no-name eq (stageworks) and I didn't have any issues with it. I think it was $75 new. No tone suck, etc.

I put my eq between preamp and poweramp. I set the eq volume to 5 (between 0-10) and adjusted the preamp volume to get the volume I wanted. My eq had a clip light so I could tell if it was clipping. It's also possible to set your preamp volume to a pre-designated level and control your volume with the EQ's level.

[derrico1]

As long as the eq isn't feeding FOH, IME it doesn't need to be super-spendy to compensate for stage acoustics. I'll typically use a Symetrix 5 band parametric, or occasionally even a Nady 5 band. Neither was expensive.