Carvin Amp/Bi-amp questions.

[TurkeypillSLEEP]

It is time for me to upgrade my rig and I have been eyeballing Carvins attractively priced lightweight heads.

I am currently using an Ampeg SVT3-pro through either a no name 8x10 (I haven't the slightest clue to the power handling), or an 8ohm SVT410HE and an Avatar 115.

My cabinets are listed at 500watts(ampeg) and 400watts(avatar) and my head puts out 450 watts at 4 ohms.

I am considering both the Carvin BX500 and the BX1500 as a suitable upgrade.

My concern is whether or not my cabinets can handle the BX1500 in a bridged mode. I am not very well versed in bi amping and am not really sure how to figure what a safe amount of power would be and how biamping distributes the power.

I am getting enough volume with the 450 watt ampeg but would like a little more head room and a rig that doesn't weigh more than I do.

Any advice, 2cents, suggestions appreciated



Thump hard thump loud,

Mike

[TurkeypillSLEEP]

Forgot to add this.

http://www.carvinguitars.com/bassamps/bassheads.php

[CL400Peavey]

You can not bi-amp in bridge mode. Bi-amping uses one power section per cab. Additionally there is no reason to split your signal between two full range cabs. Your best bet is run them both full range, and use the amp to balance the volume between the cab.

[BassmanPaul]

+1 And don't mix speaker sizes. Despite its popularity a 4x10 and a 1x15 is really a bad combination for many reasons.

[bassmeknik]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

+1 And don't mix speaker sizes. Despite its popularity a 4x10 and a 1x15 is really a bad combination for many reasons.

+1

[BassmanPaul]

BTW the BX1500 is a pretty good amp. I use one as my #2 amp.

[RockBoddham]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

+1 And don't mix speaker sizes. Despite its popularity a 4x10 and a 1x15 is really a bad combination for many reasons.

Would you care to elaborate? I have a Carvin BX1500, and was planning to run it in briged mode into an 8-Ohm Avatar B410 chained to an 8-Ohm 15.

[seang15]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

BTW the BX1500 is a pretty good amp. I use one as my #2 amp.

I'd love to get one, and make it my #1a!!

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by RockBoddham

Would you care to elaborate? I have a Carvin BX1500, and was planning to run it in briged mode into an 8-Ohm Avatar B410 chained to an 8-Ohm 15.

Do a search, this topic comes up just about every other day.

Edit: In a nutshell, the 15 cannot keep up with a 4x10 in any regard. It will not add lows because its a larger cone - that's a myth. It will handle less power and be less efficient. It will be a weak link in your system until it eventually blows.

[RockBoddham]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Do a search, this topic comes up just about every other day.

Edit: In a nutshell, the 15 cannot keep up with a 4x10 in any regard. It will not add lows because its a larger cone - that's a myth. It will handle less power and be less efficient. It will be a weak link in your system until it eventually blows.

Thanks, Paul.
I do have a couple of questions. Please bear with me, I'm not a sound engineer. If the 15 has a frequency range of 40Hz - 1.5kHz, and the 10s are 54Hz - 4kHz, isn't the 15 providing low frequencies not present from the 10s? As for power handling, the 4x10 handles 1000 W and the 15 handles 450 W and both are 8-Ohm cabs. if the amp puts out 1500 W into 4 Ohms in bridged mode, and the two 8-Ohm cabs are in series, isn't it just like one 4-Ohm cab that can handle 1450 W? I would think, as long as the amp isn't dimed, the 15 shouldn't be in danger of being blown. Another reason for considering this setup is cost. ~$700 for another 4x10 Neo, vs. ~$400 for the 1x15 Neo cab.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by RockBoddham

If the 15 has a frequency range of 40Hz - 1.5kHz, and the 10s are 54Hz - 4kHz, isn't the 15 providing low frequencies not present from the 10s?

Published manufacturer specs?

The problem is, there is no reference for how loud that 15 is at 40Hz. If it's -10dB it isn't going to be audible compared to the rest of the frequency range. The 410 might also be -10dB at 40Hz (the specs don't say) so it's a wash anyway. The 410 could actually be louder at 40Hz than the 15. Without reference for those frequencies, those specs are meaningless.

The biggest issue is output of the two cabs. No matter how hard you push the 15, the 410 will always also be that much louder...possibly until the 410 is so loud you don't even hear the 15 failing.

[makohund]

Originally Posted by RockBoddham

If the 15 has a frequency range of 40Hz - 1.5kHz, and the 10s are 54Hz - 4kHz, isn't the 15 providing low frequencies not present from the 10s?

As stated by Sundogue, without dB statements for those frequencies, they are useless. (They could be -3dB, or -10dB, or one cab using one reference and the other another.)

For example, in the case of the OP, there are proper numbers available for his SVT-410HE: Frequency Response (-3dB): 60Hz-18kHz Usable Low Frequency (-10dB): 43Hz

No idea on the Avatar 115, without knowing what model/era/etc. Even then, don't think they ever published freq specs. I have an old Avatar B115, it has a Kappa Pro 15 in it. Pretty sure there were other drivers over the years. Could model the cabs & drivers in WinISD if you really wanted to find out.

if the amp puts out 1500 W into 4 Ohms in bridged mode, and the two 8-Ohm cabs are in series, isn't it just like one 4-Ohm cab that can handle 1450 W?

Nope. First, they'll be in parallel, not series. Second... in that scenario it is more like 1500W that gets split into two 8 ohm loads. So the 410 could get up to 750W, and the 115 could get up to 750W.

More specifically, the 15 could get 750W, while each of the four 10s gets 187.5W or so. (750 divided by 4)

Furthermore, throw all of those numbers out the window... they are most likely thermal ratings. The cabs themselves will be lucky to handle half that before farting out. Safer guess is maybe 250W for the 15 and 500W for the 410. (Er... yeah, ok.) But you see uneven power distribution is still an issue.

Now, with the BX1500 you can actually deal with that cab combo if you have to. Don't bridge it, put one on each channel. Adjust levels for them separately... voila, no more power distribution problem.

You could also run the crossover. Try putting the lows in the 410, highs in 115, etc. Or vice versa. (Don't assume the 15 actually goes lower, often it is the opposite.)

There you go... that amp can actually properly handle even the worst mismatched rig, at least as best as is possible to be done. You'd be packing a lot of useless weight, and full range drivers aren't the best choice for bi-amping. But you can do it. If by luck they happen to sound good together for you (whether full range or crossed over) you have enough control to do so without risking blowing the 15 like one would with a single channel amp. (Or the BX1500 in bridge mode.)

I still wouldn't do it. But that's among the best heads to do it with if you really insist on it.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by makohund

I still wouldn't do it. But that's among the best heads to do it with if you really insist on it.

Yes, the BX1500 run in mono with each side of the amp controlling each cab, would allow you to balance the output to each cab. Once you have achieved balanced output, you can then use the Master volume for total volume control over both together.

That's really the best way to do it (if you must pair a 115 with a 410 that is).

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by TurkeypillSLEEP

...
My concern is whether or not my cabinets can handle the BX1500 in a bridged mode. I am not very well versed in bi amping and am not really sure how to figure what a safe amount of power would be and how biamping distributes the power.

I am getting enough volume with the 450 watt ampeg but would like a little more head room and a rig that doesn't weigh more than I do.

Any advice, 2cents, suggestions appreciated



Thump hard thump loud,

Mike

You've already got 225W per cab. If you give your two cabs 1500w instead of 450W you will get barely any extra headroom but make it a lot easier to blow speakers, in particular the 15.

300w per cab in stereo mode full range would be your way to go with that amp. You could probably drive the 410 a little harder while not leaning on the 15 as much but again the increase in total achievable volume ( extra headroom) wouldn't be much at all.

How come you need more volume/headroom? Btw, headroom is volume capability used sparingly. If it isn't used you wouldn't know it was there.

[basscooker]

you could pick the cab you like best, sell the others and use the funds to get another of the cab you like best. then you'd know for certain if you really need more amp, and you wouldn't have spent additional money on a "what if" that might not gain you much ground.

[bassmeknik]

Seriously, save your $$$ for a matching cab (first decide which cab sounds better to you). 2 cabs always sound louder than one and the low bass will be stronger with 2 matching cabs as they won't be (acoustically) interfering with each other like unmatched cabs often do.

The "big speakers for lows and smaller speakers for highs" idea is a total myth perpetuated by people that listen with their eyes and further perpetuated by manufacturers that want to sell you a cab, ANY CAB, they just want to sell cabs... and are NOT going to endanger a sale to try and educate you.

[Toddbass65]

My BX1500 runs great in dual mono, running a 410 carvin cab in each channel. Pretty loud without thinking about bridging.
Plenty of power in that head without any doubt. Great rig.