Carvin, Disappointed

theAntihero · #1 07-23-2010, 08:16 PM

So after going thru the recommendations and my bass players budget he decided on a Carvin B2000 head with a Carvin BRX 410 and Carvin 1x18 for his rig. He had been strugging with a behringer 4x10 combo for years until he could get himself in a place to get himself a nice ultimate-for-him-rig and the Carvin seemed like the one.

So he places the order and first off they are a bit testy about giving him the tracking numbers, basically being short with him after he called since they were supposed to send him a conformation email and tracking numbers and after several days didnt, but no biggie stuff happens.

Next UPS decides to drop the ball and not deliver his footswitch and cables, not Carvins fault they sent it out and UPS is gonna deliver it monday,but since he didnt have cables at his house he decided to bring it over to my house, since i have about a million speaker cables and my house has the practice/band room, and show me his new stack. We get it hooked up and the 1st thing i notice is that Carvins specs are wrong and the 1x18 is actually 2 inches thinner than they said. This means the 4x10 is actually 2.5 inches wider rather than the mere half inch they said it was. This means the 4x10 goes on bottom which isnt what he wanted as he wanted the 18 on the floor for the whole bass coupling thing.

So we turn it on and wow is this thing powerful! Barely cracked open it sounds very good with loads of headroom to spare and the Sub Bass function sounds great for the tone he was going for. So we start to turn it up, as often happens when you get a new rig, just to see how loud it can get. I start to notice at high volumes its got a bit of a farting out sound to the 18. No biggie i think since ive had brand new cabs be a bit farty in the lowend when they arent broken in, but we cant dial it out. Again i think maybe it just needs to be broken in, but i think its odd that the 18 is farting out before the 4x10s.

So after he's played around with it for a 2-3 hours, going thru his new eq pedal to boost his solos that he couldnt use with his previous rig because of total lack of headroom and other pedals and basses, i decide to risk life and limb and check out the cab from close range while he's playing extremely loud and figure out what the hell is rattling.

I fight my way thru the massive bass waves that he's putting out and start looking around at the 1x18. I notice that it seems to be rattling from around the lower left hand corner, so i check out the feet and put my hand on the grill to make sure that its solid and get nothing. I get my bassist to stop playing for a second so i can look directly at the speaker and dont notice any rips or tears. I then look at the mounting bolts and you know what i found?

They only put in 3 bolts!

So now im worried that he might have tweaked the frame of his speaker because of the uneven load and the fact that he plays very very bassy and loud. For those of you not aware he plays an EB-0 with the tone control set to taking away all the treble that has never been there, flatwound strings, a felt pick and an eq that favors the Sub Bass and Bass and has nothing else really going, its not Bass its Base as in the massive earthmoving platform the band sits on,as he likes to say.

So does anyone think he bent the frame of the speaker? He just seems dissapointed and even just left the stack here instead of taking it home to play, but im pretty angry as i cant stand when people cant do their jobs and this is pretty basic.

So what the verdict: Bad speaker, or just odd cost cutting move on Carvins part?

christw · #2 07-23-2010, 08:30 PM

I really doubt he bent its frame. If it's not properly secured or sealed, it may well be rattling or leaking air. However, it would take more than a cone and voice coil moving to bend the basket.

One assumption that people usually make with these rigs is that the 18 will be bassier and take more power than the 410. The collective combination of 4 10's usually can take more power and go louder before farting out than a 15 or an 18 can. As was discussed today on another thread, the 15" or in this case 18" will be the weak link in the chain.

Carvin has a very good return / warranty on their gear if I recall. Try giving them a call asap about it. Just don't be fiesty. Nobody likes dealing with "that guy."

Edit, just looked. The 410 is rated for 1200w. If he bought a BR118, it's rated for 2/3 of that at 800w. The head will put out more power (assuming he bought a 4 ohm 18") than that speaker can handle and it's no surprise that it'll fart out before the 410

theAntihero · #3 07-23-2010, 08:37 PM

Actually he had them custom make the BRX 410 to 8 ohms so he wouldnt overwhelm the 1x18 which is also 8 ohms. Also in case he ever needed more power he could just add cabs.

christw · #4 07-23-2010, 08:43 PM

A further possible difference lies in the rated sensitivity of the cabs. Sensitivity of the 118 is 98dB @ 1w where the 410 is 104dB @ 1w. If this is true across the spectrum which I'd hope it is then the 410 will be louder no matter what and leave the 118 behind. Basically, it's a bit like talking while the guy next to you is yelling. That example is a little too strong for this circumstance, but you get the idea.

theAntihero · #5 07-23-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

A further possible difference lies in the rated sensitivity of the cabs. Sensitivity of the 118 is 98dB @ 1w where the 410 is 104dB @ 1w. If this is true across the spectrum which I'd hope it is then the 410 will be louder no matter what and leave the 118 behind. Basically, it's a bit like talking while the guy next to you is yelling. That example is a little too strong for this circumstance, but you get the idea.

They are actually pretty close volume wise, i even put a db meter in front of both and at the ranges he's using it the 4x10 gets 1 or 2 db louder depending. I think its because the 1x18 is more optimal for the range that he is playing at. He likes the 2 cabs reacting a bit differently as it seems to widen the sound, just not when the 18 is farting out.

I really hope he didnt bend the frame, i know it can happen with subs if they arent bolted securely and frankly thats about at the range he's playing.

**bass4worship** · #6 07-23-2010, 09:21 PM

So have you guy put the rest of the bolt back in to the 18"?

Plstrns · #7 07-23-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theAntihero

Actually he had them custom make the BRX 410 to 8 ohms so he wouldnt overwhelm the 1x18 which is also 8 ohms.

Bad Idea. Now the eighteen recieves as much power as the 410. If the 410 was 4 ohms it would recieve 2/3 of the power.

MJ5150 · #8 07-24-2010, 12:03 AM

Not a cost cutting move. You guys got a Friday afternoon cab or a Monday morning cab.

Put in the last bolt and call it good. Nothing is bent.

-Mike

theAntihero · #9 07-24-2010, 12:34 AM

Quote:

So have you guy put the rest of the bolt back in to the 18"?

Its not the rest of a bolt its an actual missing bolt. He's gonna pick up one tomarrow at the hardware store.

Quote:

Bad Idea. Now the eighteen recieves as much power as the 410. If the 410 was 4 ohms it would recieve 2/3 of the power

Why? He likes the clarity of the 10s but likes the oomph of the 18, so using your method it would take an already underpowered effiency wise 18 and make it even less. He likes the fact that both seem to be mixing well together.

Or is it because of the differing power ratings? Both are recieving about 675w a piece, and i think the fact that he's not hammering the 10s horribly helps for the tone he's going for. Except for the obvious Carvin stupidity there be no farting out here.

Quote:

Not a cost cutting move. You guys got a Friday afternoon cab or a Monday morning cab.

Sorry that was more sarcasm than anything......unless you are being sarcastic as well? The interwebz needs a sarcasm font...

I dont know, im still sort of angry. It seems very stupid that these guys make custom guitars/basses and all sorts of electronics but they cant manage to do the very simple task of putting 4 bolts in the speaker, unbelievable.

DizzyExiled · #10 07-24-2010, 01:48 AM

Carvin's quality control has always been pretty good for the price. They do let their fair share of crap ship out though.

::::BASSIST:::: · #11 07-24-2010, 02:10 AM

Mistakes happen. Throw the missing bolt in and see what happens.

faulknersj · #12 07-24-2010, 02:15 AM

I think it is always wise to play thru gear before purchasing it. If not the actual piece of equipment, I recommend playing through the exact model in which you are interested. I would return the gear and find something that is an absolutely perfect fit. Don't forget to take the power rating of the head + the power and ohm ratings of the cabs into account. What style of music is he playing?

rpsands · #13 07-24-2010, 02:42 AM

Get rid of the 18. Get another 4x10 if needed.

**bass4worship** · #14 07-24-2010, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Get rid of the 18. Get another 4x10 if needed.

Or a 15" which is better....

billfitzmaurice · #15 07-24-2010, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Get rid of the 18. Get another 4x10 if needed.

+1. If he insists on mixing drivers use a 118 and 210. Shame on Carvin for dropping the ball on the manufacturing quality control, but as to a 410/118 (or 410/115) rig it's a poor combination, one that is asked about here on average every four days with always the same answer.

RickenBoogie · #16 07-24-2010, 07:06 AM

+ another 1, a 410 mixed with any single big spkr is just plain a bad match. The 18 does NOT provide more low end, you get that by using 2 cabs, (any cabs), and in this case, another identical 410 will provide all he wants, and eliminate any farting issues.

RJMiller · #17 07-24-2010, 07:28 AM

I have a Carvin BRX 410 and AccuGorve Gordo 18 in ch sub.
using a Pod XT Pro as a preamp into a Carvin DCM 1000L. Both cabs are 8 ohm.

To my ears the Gordo 'mellows out" the sound while the 410 provides the punch. The sound of the Gordo vs the 410 is like the sound of a tuba vs a bass trombone playing the same note in the lower register. The tuba has less apparent loudness cause it doesn't cut as much.

IMHO.

Then again, I don't run my rig "stupid loud"

- but, if you have to because the audience expects it or to compete with the rest of the band, then you have to.

RJM

Rip Topaz · #18 07-24-2010, 07:39 AM

I don't mean to hijack, but are you saying that in a bi-amp setup, that it is better to run 2 4-10's with one handling the lows than to use a 15 or 18?

Floyd Eye · #19 07-24-2010, 07:53 AM

I am currently using an older RL rig. 4X10 and 1X18. I am not happy with the 18 at all. I hear the new BRX cabs are better, but I am really not digging the cabs I have now. It definitely gets farty at high volumes. I considered dropping the 1x18 for an older Peavey 2X15 cab I have. I have also considered getting some new BRX cabs, but I think I'll just quit screwing around and save up for an older, American made Ampeg 8X10 and be done with it.

**TRichardsbass** · #20 07-24-2010, 08:01 AM

Look dudes, 8X10 does not trump 4X10 + 1X15 or 1X18. Gives you a totally different tone, that is all. The 4X10 will clearly give you better highs and better cut, the 1X18 will just move air like a huge pillow in a pillow fight.

I'm super old school. Use my 1X15 alone as much as my 4X10, just depends on what I want out of a night. But yes, the lower power handling 1X18 will get farty before the 1200W 4X10.

As for their quality, I am always surprised at its inconsistency given they are all made here in the US. Mostly its good stuff. But even at some of the places like the Fender Custom Shop you can get a "Friday afternoon or Monday Morning" miss. Missing a bolt is okay, and rather then buy one you should have Carvin send you one. I'm sure they will and then you don't have to worry about voiding a warranty.

Also, at those power levels, if you are cranking you are gonna get cab vibes and other sonic phenomena that you will hear that at any other lower level you won't. I would never expect to hear perfection at 1000W with my Hartke 4X10 HyDrive. That would just be stupid. But at 500W? Pure sweetness...