Carvin PS10-8 vs beta10-a tone

kringle77 · #1 08-19-2011, 08:58 AM

I know that these are supposed to be pretty much the same driver but, has anyone here actually had both and compared them? I wondering if the carvin has the same 3khz peak that the eminence beta has or, if it's dead sounding like the early 2000 ampeg oem? The carvins actually have a listed x-max of 4mm where the eminence have 3mm listed. Hmmm

billfitzmaurice · #2 08-19-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kringle77

I know that these are supposed to be pretty much the same driver but, has anyone here actually had both and compared them?

They used to be, but aren't anymore.

Quote:

I wondering if the carvin has the same 3khz peak that the eminence beta has

Only an SPL chart will say, and Carvin doesn't have one.

kringle77 · #3 08-19-2011, 09:43 AM

Yeah, they are china made now I think and carvin gives that plant the specs they want. The carvin tech said they should be as close as possible to their eminence OEM's but, you know how that is. Just wondering if someone had actually heard them in person because if they sound the same, have 1mm more x-max and cost $20 less, buying the carvins over the eminence would be a no brainner.

billfitzmaurice · #4 08-19-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kringle77

Yeah, they are china made now I think and carvin gives that plant the specs they want. The carvin tech said they should be as close as possible to their eminence OEM's but, you know how that is. Just wondering if someone had actually heard them in person because if they sound the same, have 1mm more x-max and cost $20 less, buying the carvins over the eminence would be a no brainner.

I run into this all the time, people using cheaper drivers in my designs instead of the recommended Eminence. It never works out well for them. Even if the T/S specs turn out to be accurate, which is only occasionally, that's only half the response story. Above 200Hz you must see a measured chart, and IME that's where cheap drivers almost always fall short. That's because good mids requires tight manufacturing tolerances, and the lack of same is what makes inexpensive drivers inexpensive.

kringle77 · #5 08-19-2011, 10:38 AM

Good to know. I learn more on here everyday!

will33 · #6 08-19-2011, 10:57 AM

I used to have a carvin redline 410 years ago that ised those. No you're not gonna find charts. All I can tell you is they had a nice "punch" in the mids and and decent sound in the uppermids with the tweeter off. You got that in exchange for not having much depth in the lows. I was constantly reaching for a bass knob or cutting mids or stacking it with a bassier sounding cab. In all honesty at that time I really didn't know what I was doing, just adjusting stuff trying to get a sound. The 4 of them seemed to handle some bass boosting without getting too farty though. Specs have probably changed since then but if you favor punch instead of real depth you might like them. The cab was typical 410 size like everybody makes, maybe an inch or two deeper than some.

No hard info here I know but it's the best I can do.

kringle77 · #7 08-19-2011, 11:37 AM

I ordered a few sealed carvin 2x10's to match with my svt instead of hauling an 8x10. When they arrive, I'll post my impression. I've also got some eminence b810 drivers that I could put in them for comparison. I figured that having 2x10 drivers in there own sealed compartment would sound better than 4 in one compartment and since the internal space is larger than the svt cab I may get a better low end and less hump in the sound. We'll see.

will33 · #8 08-19-2011, 11:54 AM

Just going off memory as far as tone the b810's should have a little more going on in the highs although the carvins didn't sound "dark". Lows may be similair, who knows. Be interesting to hear your impressions. Technically having them divided up in separate compartments shouldn't make a difference in tone but it will make for a better braced box, which does make a difference.

kringle77 · #9 08-23-2011, 07:48 AM

I got the carvin r210 yesterday and will be sending it back today, unless I decide to put different speakers in it. Without the tweet on the cab is pretty bright, brighter than a B810 driver but doesn't have the tight low end of the B810. Just a weak sounding cab on it own but would sound good biamped over an actual woofer cab. I may load it with a pair of mod10-50 drivers and use it as a bright cab, but who knows. I'd say that the ampeg 210AV is a better cab all the way around. I'd really like to find a cab with the carvins form factor that rocks.

Floyd Eye · #10 06-13-2012, 09:59 PM

I have 2 Carvin cabs with these speakers in them. With my E string dropped to C sharp ( which is pretty much standard for my band playing 1/2 step down and drop D) I have smoked a couple speakers in each cabinet. I know I am not driving them too hard so it pretty much has to be a frequency response issue.

Go with the Eminence.

foetus66 · #11 06-29-2012, 08:45 AM

Now that this thread has been resurrected, can I ask, is there or isn't there a difference between these drivers? And should I skip them all together? I have a Carvin V210 cab that is currently unloaded and I am eager to get it going again. The PS10 drivers are $50 each through Carvin. These were the stock speakers for this cab, but am I to understand that they are now essentially Chinese knock-offs? Can I expect them to work properly in a cab that was designed for the PS10 speakers? Are the beta 10-a speakers a viable alternative for this cab?

A lot of question marks here, I know.. any advice is appreciated.

will33 · #12 06-29-2012, 01:05 PM

They've since switched to Celestion speaker sourcing for their OEM's so everything's altogether different again. I think they still have some T/S specs on their site somewhere but they usually aren't very good at updating them and there are no response charts. Probably have to go off tonal descriptions from people with new, non-neo Carvin cabs.

The V210 is a pretty typical size, ported cab like a lot of 210's out there. It wouldn't hurt to just try some different drivers in there but it's also a crapshoot and can get expensive. My first "big rig" was a V210 and V115 cbas of theirs. It gave credence to the "need a big speaker for bass" myth because the 10's really did have the punch and lacked bottom and the 15 really did add bottom. In retrospect, I should've just went with a pair of the 15's but that was a long time ago and I didn't know how any of this stuff worked then. That was also the older Eminence OEM's before there was a such thing as neo...or the internet. Again, with the current Celestion China sourcing, none of those impressions really apply anymore.

foetus66 · #13 06-29-2012, 02:31 PM

hmm. my V210 is sealed, not ported. I tried some Mesa Boogie drivers in there, and when I made a thread here asking why it sounded like crap, the consensus seemed to be that trying out random different drivers in the cab was foolish of me.

So just to be clear, when I order the Carvin PS10 speakers from Carvin, I am actually getting a completely different speaker than the Carvin PS10 speakers that originally came in the cab? Basically I just want to find some drivers that will work well with the geometry of this cab.

will33 · #14 06-29-2012, 03:34 PM

The older grey carpet V210 from the early/mid '90's? It has a shelf port along the wall of the cab that exits in the rear, mine did anyway. Measure that, and the other cab dimensions and it can be reverse engineered to see what would work well in there. A lot of the neo's out now are more forgiving with different box sizes/tunings, etc. Mesa (EV) drivers used in bass cabs have almost always been about strong mids and not a lot of deep lows.