Chasing tone

**MiJaKo** · #1 09-27-2011, 09:11 PM

Hey, TB-ers.

I'm sure most of us have worked solo with our rigs before, dialing in the EQ just so and adding just the right complement of this effect and that effect, only to have it be all out of whack once you start playing with the rest of the band. Then you're back to tweaking until you can at least hear yourself and/or sit OK in the mix.

So setting up my new rig this time around I've come to expect that—so no big deal. But then it got me wondering whether your tone—the tone that each of us hear in our heads and try to faithfully reproduce—is a futile endeavor when it comes to a live situation. In the end, you're left with some sort of compromise for a tone. I mean, you would either have to have very patient bandmates that don't mind you stopping every 20 seconds during rehearsal to make adjustments, or have someone sitting at your amp to receive your "eye semaphore" instructions on what to adjust in order to get your exact tone in its native environment.

And if you could get to that point does it matter, since your tone isn't what's coming out of the FOH anyway? I don't think my rig has ever been miked; it's always gone direct out. But even with a wet/post-EQ signal to the board, it's still subject to how the sound guy has you dialed. Coming from a sound eng. background, I won't argue that the priority is to have the bass EQ'd to fit the mix, regardless of what your tone may be. (And we know that some sound guys are far better than others at that.)
So should I be focusing instead on what few effects I use that help make up my tone and let the EQ chips fall where they may? What then if the majority of YOUR tone is EQ-related?

I'd love to hear some success stories. I'd even be happy if someone told me to stop pondering my damn navel. At least I'd know whether I'm' over-thinking it.

Gearhead17 · #2 09-29-2011, 11:59 PM

I get most of the tone I like from my hands and the bass I use. Since I send a direct signal to the sound guy, this works well for me. My amp is my monitor and I like it that way. Perfect tones for me are some bottom end, enough midrange and low mid to hear myself, good clarity and that's all I need.

I do very little tone tweaking by myself and constantly do it within the band/live context. That is where you can learn how a bass rig can sound.

The idea of constantly tweaking your tone to perfection is a bit crazy. The key is to figure out what you want out of your bass tone and how to achieve something similar night after night. Learning how the knobs work and how frequencies relate to the tone you want will help you achieve a similar tone night after night.

The other trick is the hand placement in relation to the pickups - that's the real trick of all for getting the tone you want.

Lastly, acoustics of the room will ALWAYS screw with your tone; it's going to be different every night. Understand this from the start and work with it, do not FIGHT it. You will lose!

sloppy_phil · #3 09-30-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

Lastly, acoustics of the room will ALWAYS screw with your tone; it's going to be different every night. Understand this from the start and work with it, do not FIGHT it. You will lose!

+1,000

So true. In fact, everything stated in this post is just about right. I think finding 'that' tone is only really applicable in a solo/home setting. Otherwise there are just too many variables that get in the way

Maybe consider investing in your own DI box so that you have even one more level of control over the tone you're sending to FOH.

Mcrelly · #4 10-01-2011, 09:42 PM

My tone with the band tends to be a thinned out bass with some added mids to I can tell what note I'm playing. just like when you hear a guitar player being really heavy on bass you know he should lighten up and stick to the frequency that is best for his notes....and let the bass player fill in the bottom and lower mids...

MistaMarko · #5 10-03-2011, 07:50 PM

I've gotten wrapped up to the point mentally where I begin to relentlessly beat myself up trying to get the "perfect" tone while playing with the band. It got to the point once where I was turning the EQ knobs like millimeters and thinking it was actually doing something. I finally realized that I'm wrestling with physics and acoustics here and I've accepted that it's impossible to get "the perfect tone", because a mix is like a marriage, there has to be compromises, and each party has to give and take to benefit the others with it in order to achieve a perfect whole.

Also, I was a big "scooped" guy for awhile, then I realized how ridiculous that was and in the mix I'm just a frequency. I'm heavy on the high-mids now and, while by itself it sounds kind of honky, in the mix it's perfect.

To really answer your question, use my marriage analogy. Simply make sure you have enough low end to actually sound like a bass, enough mids to cut through (not too harsh, though) and be heard, and adjust treble to taste depending on how much quick attack you want on notes. It took me a long time to realize that my tone solo'd is 180 degrees different than with the mix, and it honestly frustrated me for awhile. You almost have to dial in a not-so-desirable tone solo'd and in turn those usually sound great in the mix.

So, again, adjust bass/mid/treble to the guidelines I stated above, and make tonal adjustments from there with effects and physical technique, and maybe some additional EQ adjustments depending on the other variables in the band.

I'll end this post with -- in the STUDIO, being anal and turning knobs millimeters is actually sensible where all factors are closely controlled, but in a live situation you're, again, battling so many other factors that it's best to get the basics down and work from there, versus starting out super picky and never getting anywhere. However, I have found the only things that change venue to venue/room to room when I leave my bass settings the same is the amount of mid-range...the lows and highs seem to stay fairly static.

jefkritz · #6 10-03-2011, 07:56 PM

i've learned how my tone should sound soloed in order to get a good band mix. it's not my preferred tone, but it works well in a mix.

it's easier than you'd think - just listen critically to your tone when your guitarist and drummer finally shut up. okay, so it's not that easy

billfitzmaurice · #7 10-03-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiJaKo

Hey, TB-ers.

I'm sure most of us have worked solo with our rigs before, dialing in the EQ just so and adding just the right complement of this effect and that effect, only to have it be all out of whack once you start playing with the rest of the band.

That's normal. I like my solo tone with a big bottom and clear top, not a lot in the mids, so that's my starting point. The other instruments are mostly mids, so when they kick in they'll mask yours. You then have to gradually bring them up so that you can hear yourself without being too loud. But you don't want to drown out the midrange instruments with your mids either, so ease them up until you have just enough for definition but no more.

skychief · #8 10-03-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

Since I send a direct signal to the sound guy, this works well for me. My amp is my monitor and I like it that way.

The idea of constantly tweaking your tone to perfection is a bit crazy.

Lastly, acoustics of the room will ALWAYS screw with your tone; it's going to be different every night. Understand this from the start and work with it, do not FIGHT it. You will lose!

Yah. What he said ^

**MiJaKo** · #9 10-04-2011, 10:33 PM

Good advice here. Thanks, guys.
I did notice tonight that between our 2 guitarists, I am fighting a midrange battle that I might have to concede. (Not as much tho' when one of them plays keys the other half of the time.)

JimmyM · #10 10-05-2011, 08:04 AM

Playing with bands is all about compromise all the way around, and tone is no exception. The other guys in the band also need to work with you so you're not constantly having to fight for sonic space. Having a good mix is all about slotting frequencies optimally for each instrument. You should google up some info about slotting frequencies for a mix and read it and have everyone in the band read it. And then everyone needs to turn off their egos and realize that every instrument needs its place in the sun and you all work together to achieve it.

Joe Louvar · #11 10-05-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiJaKo

Hey, TB-ers.

I'm sure most of us have worked solo with our rigs before, dialing in the EQ just so and adding just the right complement of this effect and that effect, only to have it be all out of whack once you start playing with the rest of the band. Then you're back to tweaking until you can at least hear yourself and/or sit OK in the mix.

So setting up my new rig this time around I've come to expect that—so no big deal. But then it got me wondering whether your tone—the tone that each of us hear in our heads and try to faithfully reproduce—is a futile endeavor when it comes to a live situation. In the end, you're left with some sort of compromise for a tone. I mean, you would either have to have very patient bandmates that don't mind you stopping every 20 seconds during rehearsal to make adjustments, or have someone sitting at your amp to receive your "eye semaphore" instructions on what to adjust in order to get your exact tone in its native environment.

And if you could get to that point does it matter, since your tone isn't what's coming out of the FOH anyway? I don't think my rig has ever been miked; it's always gone direct out. But even with a wet/post-EQ signal to the board, it's still subject to how the sound guy has you dialed. Coming from a sound eng. background, I won't argue that the priority is to have the bass EQ'd to fit the mix, regardless of what your tone may be. (And we know that some sound guys are far better than others at that.)
So should I be focusing instead on what few effects I use that help make up my tone and let the EQ chips fall where they may? What then if the majority of YOUR tone is EQ-related?

I'd love to hear some success stories. I'd even be happy if someone told me to stop pondering my damn navel. At least I'd know whether I'm' over-thinking it.

I’ve been playing for years so its not a big deal. Sometimes I go direct with no amp and sometimes I use in-ear-monitors and sometime I’m miced, and whenever I use a bass rig on stage I always think of it as my personal bass monitor so I dial it in however I want it and that doesn’t take more than a few minutes and I can make adjustments on the fly.

**MiJaKo** · #12 10-05-2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You should google up some info about slotting frequencies for a mix and read it and have everyone in the band read it. And then everyone needs to turn off their egos and realize that every instrument needs its place in the sun and you all work together to achieve it.

Consider it Goog'd, thanks.
Luckily, I've been friends with both guitarists for years, so we should be able to work it out.

bassfreakah · #13 10-05-2011, 04:39 PM

most of the time if you have a good sounding bass you dont have to worry about eqing the rig. Just set it flat and rock the house. All the stressing out about eg and effects is left to the guitar players. right?

grendle · #14 10-05-2011, 04:51 PM

I like Jimmy's comment (MF! lol, joke)

Whats cool to me is when you can all get on the same page with it and decide weather or not to have everyone stay separate and be heard individually, or to have everyone just add their part to the bigger sound (think Sevendust etc.) When you hook up with the right people and can all agree on things like that it can be sweet indeed.