Cheaper alternative to Eminence Deltalite II 2510?

AlexanderB · #1 10-12-2011, 05:07 AM

In the last year the Eminence Neo speaker prices have sky-rocketed, where for instance Eminence Deltalite II 2510 went from 800 SEK to over 1400 SEK + shipping.

Is there any other 10" transducers with voicing and performance not too far from 2510? It does not need to have as much Xmax (4,2mm but I guess 3mm-ish will do), but thermal rating and "tone" is more important for this application.

Oh, and by the way - I have tamed the rising mid response of the 2510 with an inductor, yielding a much flatter response. So I am NOT necessarily looking for a speaker with peaky mids!

I have used the Gamma 10, which I did not like much.

rogypop · #2 10-12-2011, 05:33 AM

Give eminence basslite s 2010 a try, that´s a good substitute.

billfitzmaurice · #3 10-12-2011, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderB

Is there any other 10" transducers with voicing and performance not too far from 2510? h.

You have to compare both the T/S specs and the SPL charts on manufacturer's driver data sheets to find out.

username1 · #4 10-12-2011, 07:22 AM

Avatar claims the "delta pro" which they use in their non neo cabs to be similar speakers only with ceramic magnets.

will33 · #5 10-12-2011, 07:54 AM

The delta pro has a little higher fs but spl, excursion, Q are in the ball park. It's curve is a little smoother, not such a climb from low to high. The pro series xlim's are so high it'd be pretty hard to kill it. Huge margin between farting and death.

billfitzmaurice · #6 10-12-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by username1

Avatar claims the "delta pro" which they use in their non neo cabs to be similar speakers only with ceramic magnets.

There is no Delta Pro ten.

will33 · #7 10-12-2011, 04:42 PM

Details....details.

The deltapro's a 12. But hey, it is in some ways up there with the deltalite 12.

billfitzmaurice · #8 10-12-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Details....details.

The deltapro's a 12. But hey, it is in some ways up there with the deltalite 12.

It's actually closer to the 3012HO, which was the intent when the 3012HO was developed.

AlexanderB · #9 10-13-2011, 12:55 AM

Thanks for the replies.

For clarification, by "voicing" I refer to characteristics that will not show up in a modelling environment such as cone break up, power compression and other live-music-SPL induced phenomena. In this application I will not strain the speakers with a lot of lows.

(The 2510 is much better than some other Eminence products, but still its general tone changes when the volume goes up. And it does not necessarily take a lot of cone excursion to make this happen.)

Is the Avatar 10" a OEM or do they use the regular one?
If it is OEM, is it still available for anyone?
Will33, do you suggest the regular Delta 10?

Thanks!

billfitzmaurice · #10 10-13-2011, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderB

For clarification, by "voicing" I refer to characteristics that will not show up in a modelling environment such as cone break up, power compression and other live-music-SPL induced phenomena.

Those all show up in a detailed comparison using T/S specs and SPL charts. Response modeling is far more accurate than our ears. IMO the Delta 10 is not appropriate for electric bass use except as a midbass/midrange driver in multi-way system.

will33 · #11 10-13-2011, 07:24 AM

What are you using it for when you say you won't strain it with a lot of lows?

The delta10 runs out of gas early with a bass without pushing up the lows, I use mine in little vocal wedges.

AlexanderB · #12 10-13-2011, 11:57 AM

Bill, as I have said before, there are many tone contributing factors that will not be discernable in T/S parameters. (Cone material, cone curvature, dust cap size, dust cap material material, outer suspension properties, w/wo shorting ring, basket resonanses etc. Each a small contributor, together a world apart.) Especially since those simulations are run at much lower power than MI speakers often are exposed to.

Will33, the application is a 2x10" + tweeter cabinet used either full range for quiet gig or as a "add on" mid/top box on top of an Ampeg SVT-410HLF. When used for that it would be powered from one channel in my QSC PLX 3602 while the Ampeg runs from the other. Doing like this I can cut the lows from the 210 and also control the power distribution between the boxes.
Still the Basslite is perhaps a better choise?

will33 · #13 10-13-2011, 12:36 PM

The deltas would work fine as a top box, probably handle quiet gigs full range but lack lowend powerhandling compared to the basslite. Tradeoffs you have to make in a dual purpose cab. Ideally you'd use basslites in the bass cab and do a little 2x6+tweet topbox for the hlf. I can totally see wanting to add mid response to that cab.

Avatar oem's trade upper resonse in exchange for being able to take a little more down low. I don't have their 10's. Perhaps you could make up for it by using a tweet you could pass lower. I do have a pair of their 12's and in that case I think it's a lopsided tradeoff. You lose way too much upper response for getting little noticable increase down low.

billfitzmaurice · #14 10-13-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderB

Bill, as I have said before, there are many tone contributing factors that will not be discernable in T/S parameters.

I know, that's what SPL charts are for. For even more detail there are waterfall charts, of course, but those only apply to finished cabs, not raw drivers.

Arjank · #15 01-19-2012, 04:17 AM

AlexanderB, try the Oberton 10B200, you will not regret it. This one eats the deltalite 2510 for breakfast, (I know this because I tested both of them side by side).
When the deltalite starts to fart out (audible distortion) the Oberton stays clean.

Oberton SWEDEN
Hi Fi Kit AB
F124 S:T Eriksgatan str. Stockholm

phone : + 46 8 - 335151
fax : + 46 8 323770
e-mail : info@hifikit.se

btw. I do not know how the prices compare to the 2510

Mr. Foxen · #16 01-19-2012, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderB

Bill, as I have said before, there are many tone contributing factors that will not be discernable in T/S parameters. (Cone material, cone curvature, dust cap size, dust cap material material, outer suspension properties, w/wo shorting ring, basket resonanses etc. Each a small contributor, together a world apart.) Especially since those simulations are run at much lower power than MI speakers often are exposed to.

Most of those things are what the T/S specs derive from, and you just need to set the input power in the simulator.