Checking the amount of current you draw

beebassdude · #1 03-07-2011, 08:51 AM

so my band plays with a ton of amps, and we've blown fuses in clubs before with all our gear, and we'd like to avoid this in the future lol. i wanted to know if there was a meter i could purchase to see how much current we are drawing (especially me with two bass amps) so i know just how many circuits we need to spread our amps across when we play. i hope its something i can buy at home depot and that doesnt cost a fortune, so any ideas are welcome. also, if theres a meter i can purchase to see how many amps are on a circuit just by plugging it into the outlet that would rule as well. some clubs have 15 amp circuits, some have 20, and itd be nice to know going in which circuits were plugging into.

disclaimer: yes i know how ridiculous this question is haha!

BassmanPaul · #2 03-07-2011, 09:35 AM

20A circuits use a different socket to 15A circuits. With todays high power amps it's best to identify circuits that are on different breakers and share the loads out.

billfitzmaurice · #3 03-07-2011, 09:36 AM

In-line current meters do exist, they aren't cheap. Most electricians use clamp-on meters, which can only be used at the service entrance.
Every outlet on stage should be 20A, dedicated, with its own wire and breaker, an outlet for each player. In most clubs you'll find one 20A circuit powering all the outlets, and it's probably shared by lights. Don't expect a club owner to fix that situation.

Quote:

20A circuits use a different socket to 15A circuits.

They're supposed to, but don't count on it.

beebassdude · #4 03-07-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

20A circuits use a different socket to 15A circuits. With todays high power amps it's best to identify circuits that are on different breakers and share the loads out.

totally agree, but id like to know just how much current im drawing from each amp. im also just interested in general, mostly at how much current my bass amps draw vs how much my guitarists amps draw.

billfitzmaurice · #5 03-07-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beebassdude

totally agree, but id like to know just how much current im drawing from each amp.

Look at the fuse/breaker rating on the back of the amp.

beebassdude · #6 03-07-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

In-line current meters do exist, they aren't cheap. Most electricians use clamp-on meters, which can only be used at the service entrance.
Every outlet on stage should be 20A, dedicated, with its own wire and breaker, an outlet for each player. In most clubs you'll find one 20A circuit powering all the outlets, and it's probably shared by lights. Don't expect a club owner to fix that situation.

They're supposed to, but don't count on it.

ok bill, how would a band do this live and not blow fuses left and right?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...amplifiers.jpg

im very curious as to how they get this to work, because these guys play a lot of shows and i cant imagine at their level theyre blowing the power all the time. thanks man!

erigod23 · #7 03-07-2011, 09:43 AM

An inexpensive way (>$100) would be to buy a rackmounted power bar that has a current draw meter on it. Then plug things into it and see what happens. I think the Furman has it. A cheaper one might be found at a place that wholesales data equipment like Graybar.

Eric Moesle · #8 03-07-2011, 09:45 AM

I use an old-model Furman PM8 in my rack which shows the incoming voltage as well as the current draw (in amps) of my gear at any given time. Picked it up used several years ago for $75.

I could care less about the power "conditioning" of the Furman units, but having the meters is valuable to me.

billfitzmaurice · #9 03-07-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beebassdude

im very curious as to how they get this to work, because these guys play a lot of shows and i cant imagine at their level theyre blowing the power all the time. thanks man!

The venues they play obviously know enough to have adequate power available for their needs. They probably specify their requirements in the rider.
If your boys gear is constantly blowing fuses I think they probably have more gear than they need for the venues they're playing in. If it was a constant issue with every act even the cheapest club owner would get it fixed.

craig.p · #10 03-07-2011, 09:49 AM

Consider a "WATTS UP" meter. They're only 15A but that's really all you ought to sink off a 20A feed in order to have some safety margin and to have minimal voltage drop over long power runs. (There may be more-expensive models that handle 20A.) They'll store maximums so you can review them after you've run the amp(s) the hardest you expect to run them. THAT'S the figure that's important.

esa372 · #11 03-07-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Moesle

I use an old-model Furman PM8 in my rack which shows the incoming voltage as well as the current draw (in amps) of my gear at any given time.

I could care less about the power "conditioning" of the Furman units, but having the meters is valuable to me.

+1

**Lazarus.Bird** · #12 03-07-2011, 10:33 AM

Haha. Our Vito's show is going to be funny...

A good rule of thumb is for everyone to plug into different outlets, as separate outlets are likely to be on different circuits. I know that I can run my SVT and my one guitarist's Marshall on the same circuit and be fine, so we typically try to do that at shows and then keep the PA and the other guitar amp on a different circuit. Even in small crummy house shows/dive bars we've never really had a problem. Just use common sense and try to distribute your load.

aborgman · #13 03-07-2011, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

20A circuits use a different socket to 15A circuits.

Cooper 15A receptacle:

Cooper 20A receptacle:

Your odds of finding outlets that are incorrect for the circuit they are on is probably approaching 100% though.

curtis r · #14 03-07-2011, 10:53 AM

on big shows even some med. shows in venues that are more than 800 or so in cap. the sound company has a seperate power distro. that hooks up to wires coming from the pole or before the breaker box. so in shows like in the picture they dont use house power.

Steve · #15 03-07-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aborgman

Cooper 15A receptacle:

Cooper 20A receptacle:

Your odds of finding outlets that are incorrect for the circuit they are on is probably approaching 100% though.

The National Electrical Code permits the use of 15a. duplex receptacles on 20a branch circuits UNLESS...it is a single receptacle on a dedicated circuit.

So...the first receptacle is what you will find (legally) 99% of the time.

The National Electrical Code Requires all branch circuits to have a minimum capacity of 20A in a commercial occupancy so, the circuit capacity will be 20A (legally) 99% of the time

James Judson · #16 03-07-2011, 11:45 AM

Bar owner/tenders know little to nothing about wiring. They will say its wired right every time. Trying to measure current draw is probably beyond your grasp. Here is what I do.

1.Take that little 3 LED gadget from Home Depot and make sure ALL outlets are wired right.

2. Plug all amps including PA into the same outlet. This reduces noise, ground loops and getting shocked from mics.

3. If a problem occurs, go find a live outlet (using the Home Depot checker) before the breaker gets reset. Run a extension cable and divide your amps in half.

The chances of finding outlets on seperate circuits before theres a problem will be very hard cuz the owner/bar tender just has better things to do. I have never blown a circuit just from band equipment.

YMMV

Meyatch · #17 03-07-2011, 11:46 AM

We had problems in certain venues with blowing fuses. We have two rack mounted power conditioners in our amp box, and try our best to run an extension cord for one of them to an outlet on another circuit.

We will split the power up even further if its possible.

Not all club owners know what outlets are on different breakers, but they usually have at least some idea. Just ask.

We have a fairly big system and have never had a problem when splitting the power up.

If you just have regular bass amp heads they are probably not drawing much power. If you are using preamps and power amps and turning up insanely loud they might be drawing a fair amount of amperage, which is what you'd like to be measuring by the way. Wattage and voltage are not particularly applicable to what you are trying to determine.

**Lazarus.Bird** · #18 03-07-2011, 11:53 AM

True story, the first gig I had with the first and second bands I was in the power went out in the middle of out set both times. Luckily during the first show of my third and current band no such thing happened

beebassdude · #19 03-07-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyatch

We had problems in certain venues with blowing fuses. We have two rack mounted power conditioners in our amp box, and try our best to run an extension cord for one of them to an outlet on another circuit.

We will split the power up even further if its possible.

Not all club owners know what outlets are on different breakers, but they usually have at least some idea. Just ask.

We have a fairly big system and have never had a problem when splitting the power up.

If you just have regular bass amp heads they are probably not drawing much power. If you are using preamps and power amps and turning up insanely loud they might be drawing a fair amount of amperage, which is what you'd like to be measuring by the way. Wattage and voltage are not particularly applicable to what you are trying to determine.

its 4 heads at the moment: SVT-VR, Sunn 2000S, Bogner Xtasy, Orange Thunderverb 200. we were being stupid yesterday and had both bass amps and the orange in the same outlet (although i didnt know it was the same at the time), it blew, and rightfully so, we were cranked to all hell.

once we put my SVT on the same outlet as the bogner, we were fine, so we had 2 heads on each, everything was cool. but we were joking about adding other amps (because were idiots and love having amps lol) but im not gonna waste time buying anything else if were gonna blow circuits like that.

i know about next to nothing about circuits/current/amps/etc, but is there any sort of device that lowers the amount of current draw? some sort of conditioner that truly lowers the level of current that youre producing? or is that not even possible?

beebassdude · #20 03-07-2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus.Bird

True story, the first gig I had with the first and second bands I was in the power went out in the middle of out set both times. Luckily during the first show of my third and current band no such thing happened

btw, that pizza place is going to explode.

and its going to ******* rule! haha!