Clip light demons are killing me!!

jonesn4bass · #1 08-16-2011, 06:23 AM

Good morning guys!

I have been having some amp woes for a while now that I have posted about a couple times, and I have come to the conclusion that the gear is not the issue...it's the user. Still, I could use some help to figure out WHY these issue persist.

Here's the short version of the story: I had been using a Carvin B1500 for years into a RedEye 410. No issues. I play a StingRay 5, flat EQ on both bass and amp, drive at about 12 o'clock, volume around 9 o'clock. One day, with no warning, my power amp clip light starts coming one too frequently for my liking. Originally I assumes I had amp issues.

Since then I have assumed cab fault, amp fault, and bass fault. So, as an excuse to blow off some gas I have done a complete gear overhaul and now use a Schroeder 6x10, Behringer EP2500 (in bridge mode), Sansamp RBI, and 3 different basses. I only cut on the EQ on the bass and have the volume about 50% on the preamp. MY CLIP LIGHT STILL POPS ON!

Someone, anyone, PLEASE tell me where I'm going wrong!! I have spent WAY to much money on issues that I can only assume are simple user errors. As I mentioned, my EQing is typically cut only (if I back off any more its not gonna sound like a bass!), volume is at about 50% on sansamp, Channel 2 is off on the EP2500, my speakon cable is setup properly for bridge mode.

Help me please!

KJung · #2 08-16-2011, 07:10 AM

First, check to see if you are looking at the 'input/gain' clip light or the 'power amp' clip light. Those are two very different things with very different impacts and solutions.

DasClyde · #3 08-16-2011, 07:18 AM

Could it be a built in compressor?

I'd say turn some EQ, volume or gain down if it is clipping.

jonesn4bass · #4 08-16-2011, 07:19 AM

Thanks Ken!

On the B1500 it was DEFINITELY the Power Amp clip light.

On the Behringer EP2500 the specs are a little more cryptic.

jonesn4bass · #5 08-16-2011, 07:24 AM

Thanks DasClyde, the problem comes in that I really can't turn down without being completely unheard in my band setting. In an ideal world, I could rock out a quite practice levels and be a happy camper, but in the PA-less clubs we play and our rehearsal space against 2 loud halfstacks and ogre of drummer that literally breaks cymbals....that simply isn't an option.

Volume is absolutely crucial, which is why I stepped up to a 2000W amp and 6x10 capable of 1800W (I know, watts isn't the end all be all of volume) from a smaller 4x10.

Darknut · #6 08-16-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesn4bass

Thanks DasClyde, the problem comes in that I really can't turn down without being completely unheard in my band setting. In an ideal world, I could rock out a quite practice levels and be a happy camper, but in the PA-less clubs we play and our rehearsal space against 2 loud halfstacks and ogre of drummer that literally breaks cymbals....that simply isn't an option.

Volume is absolutely crucial, which is why I stepped up to a 2000W amp and 6x10 capable of 1800W (I know, watts isn't the end all be all of volume) from a smaller 4x10.

I too play in a lot of situations where my amp is the only source for the bass audio so I feel your pain.

It looks like you got power to spare & a 610 can move plenty of air so if the amp is clipping your gain structure is off somewhere ... has to be.

Unless you are really SO loud your about to blow Sh*t up

If thats the case then maybe you need another 6x10 to add to the pile

jonesn4bass · #7 08-16-2011, 08:48 AM

Thanks for the reply! I don't we're THAT loud. We're loud, for sure, but no ear bleeding and the walls are still standing.

Any gain structure ideas or suggestions?

Darknut · #8 08-16-2011, 09:46 AM

I would start messing the drive/level ration on the Sansamp.
lower the drive & raise the level to compensate & see if that changes anything

tech21nyc · #9 08-16-2011, 10:10 AM

According to the manual on the unit, it has an input sensitivity of 1.23V (+4dBu.) The RBI can exceed that output depending upon the way you have it set. You may need to reduce the level of the RBI and increase the gain controls on the front of the power amp if you haven't already done so.

Here is the other thing. After doing a quick search it seems that the clip light issue has been experienced by other users. You also need to figure out if the amp is actually clipping. If it's not I wouldn't worry about it. I have some older rack mount units that always show the clip lights in the red but they operate fine. Those lights are not infallible.

R Baer · #10 08-16-2011, 01:32 PM

It also depends on what the manufacturer has intended that clip light to be an indication of. Some manufacturers will have the clip light activate when the amp is actually clipping, while others will use it as more of a "warning light" that you are close to clipping. How close, also depends on the manufacturer. Simple rule for you is to always trust your ears first. If the clip light is not on, but you hear some clipping, then it's clipping. If the clip light is on, but the amp sounds fine, then the amp sounds fine.

Also, my experience watching dozens (hundreds?) of players stop by our booth at NAMM tells me that right hand technique plays a big part in the overall equation. I've seen some players crank the amp up to max and have it sound wonderful, full and big, with no amp clipping, or cabinet distortion at all. I've also seen other players drive the amp into clipping with half that volume, or less. I even seen guys blow out the amp, or cab at such low volume, that I was sure there was something wrong with the rig. Of course, then the next player picks up the same bass, cranks it to the max and it sounds fine.

If you are really having a problem blowing out every amp you try with various different basses, you might want to hook up with a good teacher and have him take a look at your right hand technique (no offense to your skills, just a suggestion...mine could use some work as well). The guys that pluck their strings more parallel to the strings (watch someone like Gary Willis, Todd Johnson, Michael Rhodes) tend to get a much more volume out of their rigs than the guys that tend to hit the strings with a lot of downward force. Then there's the guys that don't seem to get the concept that one should not smack the strings down onto the pick up's pole pieces. Always a joy when they stop by the booth.

jonesn4bass · #11 08-16-2011, 01:48 PM

No offense taken! I will be the first to admit that I am a.) not a fantastic player, and b.) heavy handed. I seem to be heavier handing playing with fingers than with a pick, so I have started using the forbidden pick lately to attempt to alleviate some of the issues...to no avail!

I had a local amp tech take a look at it today just to verify that everything was working as it should be (just to rule things out) and his conclusion is that everything works fine. He also had the same opinion that lights aren't the end all be all indicators of issues. So....maybe I'm just paranoid?

I don't know. It just seems odd that I've had this problem linger for the last year or so while using completely different cabs, amps, and basses. However, the first decade I was playing (using the same gear for most of that) I never ran into issues. So weird!

R Baer · #12 08-16-2011, 01:52 PM

Well, just remember that when you are trouble shooting by the process of elimination, it's necessary to eliminate every part of your signal chain. That may include cords, speaker cables, effects units, batteries and even yourself. Have another player play your rig and see if the problem can be recreated.

Toastfuzz · #13 08-16-2011, 02:03 PM

Not sure of your exact equipment, but both "bigger" amps I've used, when I'm turned up to gigging volume and playing like I play, the clip lights come on every time I pluck a string. Amps are Peavey 300 and Ampeg SVT3Pro. Also, the sound being produced sounds good, no farting out or audible clipping, although I play with a notably grindy tone. Are you just going for the smoothest of smooth jazz bass possible, and so want absolutely no clipping? Or are you getting good sound, and just don't like the light coming on? Cuz in my personal experience, that light means j*** sh**.

bucephylus · #14 08-16-2011, 02:05 PM

Another thing to consider: IME, the Ray5 has a pretty hot output. Previous comments regarding right hand technique are spot on; but, you also need to be mindful of the input to the amp with that bass and adjust accordingly. With a lot of amps, you want the input clip indicator to be just shy of coming on and perhaps showing at peak transients; and that may require reducing your input level - then compensate with the power section to do the heavy lifting. GL

jonesn4bass · #15 08-17-2011, 08:02 AM

Thank you all so much for your input so far! I have a rehearsal tonight in which I will try all new cables, handing off my instrument to someone else, bringing another bass, and adjusting the input levels from my Sansamp. According to both the Behringer manual and the Carvin, it isn't the preamp side that's clipping (I firmly believe that it isn't possible to make the Carvin preamp clip), but the power amp end of things.

I did have the Behringer looked at and the tech seemed to share the same opinion as many of you - if its just a light and things sound OK, then it is fine to ignore it. I'm not going for smooth jazz tone, I'm going for dirty and gritty.....I just get scared when I see lights because I don't have the finances to replace my gear (again).

Maybe the best solution would to save up some cash and purchase an good second cab to give me more volume at lower levels.

Once again, that you all for your input. This is reason I love Talkbass! The knowledge bass on this forum is second to none!