Club Bergantino V4

[ricguy]

Originally Posted by Candybassed

Anybody tried a berg with a Genz Benz Streamliner? Hearing mixed reviews. From sublime to too muddy?? I'm on the lookout for a Streamliner 900 to go with my HT112 and cope with future expansion.

I got a Streamliner 900 last week and used it for the first time on a gig last Saturday with a HD212, and yeah, it was real big down low. The bass control on the amp was close to off (between 7 & 8 o'clock)! However, it was not a good room for the "maiden voyage" - large room, high ceiling, wood floor.

Too soon to say for sure if this amp and cab will play well together, but it's not looking real good. I have another gig this weekend, then four the following week, so I'll have plenty of gig-time to do more critical evaluation.

On a side note - I ordered a different preamp tube (a 5751)for the STM900 this morning and will replace the 12AX7 with it to see if that helps tighten things up down low.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by ricguy

I got a Streamliner 900 last week and used it for the first time on a gig last Saturday with a HD212, and yeah, it was real big down low. The bass control on the amp was close to off (between 7 & 8 o'clock)! However, it was not a good room for the "maiden voyage" - large room, high ceiling, wood floor.

Too soon to say for sure if this amp and cab will play well together, but it's not looking real good. I have another gig this weekend, then four the following week, so I'll have plenty of gig-time to do more critical evaluation.

On a side note - I ordered a different preamp tube (a 5751)for the STM900 this morning and will replace the 12AX7 with it to see if that helps tighten things up down low.

With that cab, if you like the grind and punch, you will be fighting it. If there is any way to swap that amp for the Shuttle Max 9.2 (I believe they are about the same price), and assuming you are playing a Ric (based on your signature), you will be REALLY happy with that cab and your tone IMO.

[craigb43]

Here is a sound review with me using my passive p and j basses with my streamliner and my Berg cabs , HT-322 and 2 AE112's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auKTNYOX03A

[ricguy]

Originally Posted by KJung

With that cab, if you like the grind and punch, you will be fighting it. If there is any way to swap that amp for the Shuttle Max 9.2 (I believe they are about the same price), and assuming you are playing a Ric (based on your signature), you will be REALLY happy with that cab and your tone IMO.

Ya' know, I happen to have a 9.2 sitting right here - ready to go to FedEx tomorrow. I had both amps here at the same time and as cool as the 9.2 is, I like the STM900 better. It just "speaks to me" what I want to hear. So, I may need to find a different cab(s) to pair with it.

I want punch 'n' grind sometimes, but not all the time. Maybe a HD410 would do it for me. Time will tell.

[CaptainWally]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

So my question is: Dare I sell/trade my AE410 for a pair HD112's? Has anyone else done so? I like the form factor and the modularity of killer 112 cabs. Used to love my former Bergantino HT/EX 112 stack (BMS) But I always want it to be a bit fuller, deeper and bigger sounding. It was a killer rig, but rather 'focused' and directional.

I would love to get back to a pair of Bergie 112's. So ....Do I lose the AE410 in favor of a pair of HD112's? What do fellow Bergie owners think?

I would. And did!

I never really bonded with the AE410 I had for a short while.

IMHO, a couple of HD112s and a good mini amp are all you would need. One HD112 for the small/acoustic gigs, and two for just about anything else.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

So my question is: Dare I sell/trade my AE410 for a pair HD112's? Has anyone else done so? I like the form factor and the modularity of killer 112 cabs. Used to love my former Bergantino HT/EX 112 stack (BMS) But I always want it to be a bit fuller, deeper and bigger sounding. It was a killer rig, but rather 'focused' and directional.

I would love to get back to a pair of Bergie 112's. So ....Do I lose the AE410 in favor of a pair of HD112's? What do fellow Bergie owners think?

I really like the AE410, but I also prefer the HD212 or my two HT112ER's, from a sonic perspective. The AE410 packs a nice tone/power for the weight, though, for sure. As does the AE212.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

I really like the AE410, but I also prefer the HD212 or my two HT112ER's, from a sonic perspective. The AE410 packs a nice tone/power for the weight, though, for sure. As does the AE212.

All these cabs sound quite different, and react with various heads in quite different ways. Going from any of these cabs to one of the others will be a significant change in response, tone and general 'vibe'. Hard to say if that move would be 'better or worse', and would of course, depend on the player. The two closest are IMO the HD212 and the AE212. The AE410 is VERY different across its entire range from the others, and (as you know) the HT112ER has that super hi fi top end that is a bit of a love/hate thing depending on tone goals (as is the very aggressive mid response of the AE410).

The AE212 and HD212 are probably (IMO and IME) the more 'middle of the road' voicing of those four offerings.... big but not overextended down low, mid present but not mid aggressive, and a reasonably 'typical' tweeter/crossover that most who have played tweeter loaded cabs would find 'familiar'.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by KJung

All these cabs sound quite different, and react with various heads in quite different ways. Going from any of these cabs to one of the others will be a significant change in response, tone and general 'vibe'. Hard to say if that move would be 'better or worse', and would of course, depend on the player. The two closest are IMO the HD212 and the AE212. The AE410 is VERY different across its entire range from the others, and (as you know) the HT112ER has that super hi fi top end that is a bit of a love/hate thing depending on tone goals (as is the very aggressive mid response of the AE410).

The AE212 and HD212 are probably (IMO and IME) the more 'middle of the road' voicing of those four offerings.... big but not overextended down low, mid present but not mid aggressive, and a reasonably 'typical' tweeter/crossover that most who have played tweeter loaded cabs would find 'familiar'.

I agree to that, though I will say that IME/IMHO, the HD212 and 2xHT112ER sound more alike than the HD212 and the AE212. There is more of a difference in the mids with the HD212 vs AE212, which I think is more audible than the difference in the highs (and slight difference in the mids) on the HD212 vs 2xHT112ER.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

I agree to that, though I will say that IME/IMHO, the HD212 and 2xHT112ER sound more alike than the HD212 and the AE212. There is more of a difference in the mids with the HD212 vs AE212, which I think is more audible than the difference in the highs (and slight difference in the mids) on the HD212 vs 2xHT112ER.

+1 Depends if you are focusing more on the lower mids IME, the HD112/212 (just like the HT112ER... seems pretty much the same box and the same driver) has more of a bump down there, versus the highs, where the HD and HT are VERY different, with the HD (since it uses the same tweeter as the AE from what I understand and what I hear, and I assume a similar crossover) sounds quite similar to the AE up top.

Edit: Put another way, I had an easier time bumping a bit of low mids to make the AE212 sound quite similar down low to the HT112ER (and hence, the HD112). No amount of knob turning made anything else sound like the unique top end of the HT112ER. The top end of the HD112 that I spent time with is pretty similar to the AE212. Again, too much detail, but maybe will help those who have not had a chance to play all this stuff.

All good stuff. The low mid push of those HT/HD ceramic 12's is impressive!

PS What is the title of Issue 9... can't read it on your Avatar. I look forward to it. Also, FYI, the Bass Gear link in your sig still goes through the rerouting to the new website from the old versus the direct link.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by KJung

PS What is the title of Issue 9... can't read it on your Avatar. I look forward to it. Also, FYI, the Bass Gear link in your sig still goes through the rerouting to the new website from the old versus the direct link.

It says, "Der Bassmacher: Gerald Marleaux."

And I'll look into that link, thanks!

Tom.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

It says, "Der Bassmacher: Gerald Marleaux."

And I'll look into that link, thanks!

Tom.

No wonder I couldn't make it out. German Very cool. I look forward to the issue!

[Saluki]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

I would love to get back to a pair of Bergie 112's. So ....Do I lose the AE410 in favor of a pair of HD112's? What do fellow Bergie owners think?

Gary,

I sold my AE410, which was my main cab with the M6 for a long time and sampled other berg cabs. I had 4 AE112s at the same time. Two series A and two series B, also had both version of the AE210 and a AE212. Oh, also had the HT112ER and HS210s, but never owned the HD112.

When I had the AE112s, I ultimately missed the 10's. So I went back to the AE210s both versions and picked up some HD210s to compare with. When I decided I was going to move to a micro amp as my main amp I liked the tone of the ceramic HD210s with my STM 900. I like the HD210 combo with the STM900 as much as any combo I have had. I struggled with the AE212 the most so I have stayed away from the HD212 and HD112, although a HD112 would probably sound killer beneath a HD210.

I have tried many of the micro amps/cab combos and believe KJ is on with his yin/yang analogy. You might be able to get where you want by tweaking but some amps just sound better with other cabs regardless of the tweaking. I would rather get close then tweak and struggle.

Since we used the same rig for a long time, I think you would be happy with the STM900/HD210 combo. If not quick enough I would suggest the MB800/GK112x2 setup like Vic gigs with alot.

[lowfreqgeek]

After getting an upright bass earlier this year, my bass rig has been in upheaval. Right now, my main gigging rig is an AE112 and ShuttleMax 9.2. I tend to run electrics through the tube channel and the upright through the FET channel on the 9.2. I've been happy with it so far, but I've also been interested in a Walter Woods for as long as I can remember.

So my question is how does the WW pair with the AE112 (how about an HS410 - my bigger cab)? Or, how about 2 AE112's stacked (thinking about swapping the HS410 for another AE112...)?

I really can't complain about the SM9.2 at all, I'm just curious if the WW would really be worth the added expense - especially since I play upright about 60% of the time lately.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by lowfreqgeek

After getting an upright bass earlier this year, my bass rig has been in upheaval. Right now, my main gigging rig is an AE112 and ShuttleMax 9.2. I tend to run electrics through the tube channel and the upright through the FET channel on the 9.2. I've been happy with it so far, but I've also been interested in a Walter Woods for as long as I can remember.

So my question is how does the WW pair with the AE112 (how about an HS410 - my bigger cab)? Or, how about 2 AE112's stacked (thinking about swapping the HS410 for another AE112...)?

I really can't complain about the SM9.2 at all, I'm just curious if the WW would really be worth the added expense - especially since I play upright about 60% of the time lately.

Two AE112's and the Max 9.2 would be KILLER for either DB or EB. As a former Walter Woods owner (used one version or the other of Walter's heads for almost 20 years), I wouldn't bother versus the Max 9.2.

[Candybassed]

Sweet rig bro! I love Avalons! Is that the U5? Must really phatten the sound!

[lowfreqgeek]

Originally Posted by KJung

Two AE112's and the Max 9.2 would be KILLER for either DB or EB. As a former Walter Woods owner (used one version or the other of Walter's heads for almost 20 years), I wouldn't bother versus the Max 9.2.

Thanks, Ken. That's what I suspected. Since getting my upright last spring, I've done around a dozen gigs on it exclusively, a few more doubling gigs, and who knows how many electric gigs. I've been really happy with the EQ section(s) on Max 9.2/AE112. Not a thing to complain about with the Genz, but I'll probably always be curious about a Walter Woods.

Now to decide if I really need a second AE112 (or other complimentary Berg 12" cab)...

[KJung]

Originally Posted by lowfreqgeek

Thanks, Ken. That's what I suspected. Since getting my upright last spring, I've done around a dozen gigs on it exclusively, a few more doubling gigs, and who knows how many electric gigs. I've been really happy with the EQ section(s) on Max 9.2/AE112. Not a thing to complain about with the Genz, but I'll probably always be curious about a Walter Woods.

Now to decide if I really need a second AE112 (or other complimentary Berg 12" cab)...

The Walter is a fabulous DB head, but just SO expensive these days, and the Max 9.2 can get you there just fine IMO. The Walter would be a touch more open down low, and a bit cleaner up top. $2,500 cleaner.... not so much

[TussinBot.]

to nv610 or not is the question. From everything Ive read this cab only receives praises. I havent paired a sealed cab with my '74 ampeg v4b yet, but the consensus is sealed cabs seem to be the way to go with all tube heads. Im pretty sure my current living space would be destroyed by bringing a 6x10 in here, but I imagine the tone would be worth it!

[rodl2005]

I like the NV412 a li'l more myself-ymmv of coz. To me, it's got a tad more hi's & lows, not QUITE as punchy, but still monstrously so.
Reminds me more of an SVT 810 - has the same "cushion-ey" sealed vibe, where the NV610's all "punch u in the face"
The NV412's more "punch in the guts"
& NV215's "punch in the nutz"

[kringle77]

Yeah, Rod hit that one on the head. I actually think the nv412 sounds more like the vintage ampeg 8x10 than the 6x10 does.