Combos- 1x12 vs 1x15; tradeoff of sound for weight?

[OllieDox]

Hi everyone. Great forum. I'm hoping you guys could provide some insight. I'm a recent convert from guitar to bass. The band I am in plays energetic hard rock. We typically play bars to about 30-100 people a few times a month. Almost all of these places run my bass amp direct. Both guitar players in the band have 40 watt tube amps (a 1x12 and the other a 2x12) and the drummer hits hard. I'm playing a Highway 1 P bass.

I'm using an old SWR Workingman's 15. It's the first version that's 120w. It's loud enough (although I do have to have the gain and volume typically around 75%) and I like the way it sounds but at 70 pounds I'd really like something lighter without sacrificing volume or tone. I see that SWR has the Workingpro 12 which is 200 watts and 25 pounds lighter. My question is there a significant difference in volume and tone differernce between the 12 and 15? I know it depends on speaker efficiency and other factors. Would the difference in wattage make up for the smaller speaker? Maybe someone has experience with these two combos? It looks like Guitar Center (the last place near me that carried SWR) no longer has them in store so I can't try it out in person.

I'm open to other suggestions. Doesn't need to be a combo either, I am just looking for something simple. Price range could be up to $1000 although I'd like to keep it in the $500-600 range. I'd prefer something made in North America too. Thanks!

[billfitzmaurice]

Like all compromises combos don't do anything particularly well. Get separates. Driver size alone make almost no difference, size only affects dispersion. For portability the 2x10 cab is probably the best all around; be sure to get one with drivers vertically aligned, otherwise the dispersion is reduced, making it harder for both you and the audience to hear what you're doing. With all the micro-heads now available combos are rather passe even from the convenience standpoint.

[HMZ]

If Guitar Center is your only option check out their Markbass stuff. They have a few combos that have 1x12 or 1x15 and see which one you like better. Markbass stuff sounds great and its lite. Genz Benz also makes a few lite powerful combos you may want to check out as well.

[RickenBoogie]

+1 to skipping the combo amps altogether, and going with seperates. A good 300+ watt head will provide enough headroom you won't need to be "pushing it" all the time, paired with a lightweight 410, or pair of 210's, or even a good 2x12, or pair of 112's. Lots of better options than ANY combo amp.

[StrangerDanger]

Check the classifieds here on Talkbass. I love my TC Electronics rig (RH450 and RS212). The head weighs about 8lbs and the cab weighs about 40lbs. Really easy to tote around and super versatile tone wise. You could a rig like mine used for around $1000.

[irbass]

I have 2 choices maybe can help you

1 Gallien-Krueger MB212 2x12 500W Ultralight Bass Combo Amp, 37 pounds $699 at musiciansfriend.com

2 Made in Usa, Go and check Carvin.com maybe they have something good for you.

[casio]

Well, I use a combo per se.
I have the mesa M3 carbine bundled with the 1x12 speaker and love it.
If I want I can take out the head and use it as a standalone, or I can ad an extra cab if I feel the necessity.
As far as the extra light weight stuff goes, I feel it still only does part of the job right, the sounds I wanted were never there

[blmeier7]

From my experience there is a noticeable drop in output from a single 12" to a single 15" cab. If you play a room for 300 people the single 12" might be a bit of a stretch.

To answer your question about tone differences from a 12" to 15"...there will be a difference. As you probably know every cab is going to be a little different so there is not really an easy answer here other than to see if you can find one somewhere to try.

irbass mentioned the GK MB212. I haven't played through one of these but the price, weight, and volume would be there for you. FWIW I do have the GK MB115 and I have been impressed. It has plenty of volume to hold up to two guitarists and a loud drummer. The MB115 could handle a medium size venue with 300 people although I still prefer my 2x12 cab for med to large gigs.

I haven't played through any of the SWR gear in a quite a while...I just don't see it around as much as I used to.

[Russell L]

I have a Markbass CMD 121H combo. Nothing wrong with combos, IMO. This one is 300w with one 12". Amazing tone and volume, but I need more for the gigs I'm playing (large horn band, variety, and another variety cover band that's fairly loud). The 12" will clank if I have too much bottom going on, although it will get very loud set flat. I bought a Markbass Traveler 151P cab for it instead of going with another 121H cab, thinking I'd like to run two 15s eventually with a separate head (so, I shoulda gotten a separate head to start with, see). I tried the 15 by itself with the Little Mark II head that's in the combo, and I found that it will handle more lows at a higher volume than the 12 will, no clanking. The 151P cab is just a tad bigger than the combo cab. I dunno if that's what makes the difference or not. Also, the 151P is rated at 100db sensitivity as opposed to the 121H's 99db. I can hear the difference.

Point is, I've played many a gig with some old 115 combos that were 200w and did well for softer gigs. I switched to a 112 when I got my old Workingman's 12 in the 90s, trying to save weight, but it was only 100w. Not enough, even for a stage monitor. Then came my Bassman 150 (150w) with its one 12. Not enough again. Now my Markbass 300w with one 12. Still not enough for the loud gigs. But, the Markbass 151P is way closer to being enough with the 300w Little Mark II. I think that if you have to have one speaker, I'd go with a 115. Somehow, there is a difference, IMO. Maybe my 15 doesn't disperse as well as my 12, or a 10, but it sure hangs in there for thumping better than the 12s I've tried. Two 12s might've done the job, dunno, but my mind got stuck on the 15 idea.

Just my experience, mind you.

Oh, and the 151P sounds killer with the 121H combo, no probs, plus it's 500w. I'm doing ok so far.

[jay loren]

I found my WorkingPro 12 at a local shop that carries a good selection of amps. I tried GK, Ampegs, and Hardke and liked the WorkingPro 12 the best. I would have gotten the WorkingPro 15 but couldn't swing the money. They sold me the floor model for $450. I would have preferred a separate but they also were either not as good sounding or way too expensive for me.
It's important that you try as many models as possible with YOUR OWN bass. If you can't, pick the cheapest/lowest quality instrument in the store to plug in.
Just my 2cents
J

[OllieDox]

Thanks everyone for all of the advice. I'll stop by Guitar Center on the way to practice tomorrow and see what they have. The majority are recommending a head/cab setup so I'll look into that. I'll check out the Markbass and GK combos too- I know GC usually has a large selection from both brands.

Originally Posted by casio

I have the mesa M3 carbine...If I want I can take out the head and use it as a standalone

Interesting. I didn't know you could do that with the M3 combo. I knew you could with the Walkabout Scout.

[Mousekillaz]

I have a W.P.12 you might find it a bit overwhelmed as a stand alone against a heavy handed drummer and guitar players who can never hear themselves but never think of turning down.

[::::BASSIST::::]

As for combos the Markbass "jeff berlin" model might be perfect for you.

For seperates I'd look into Carvin. Their bx500 is pretty nice for a good price. I would definitely say a 210 or 115 is a minimum. A 112 cab is not going to be enough unless its a fEARful or Thunderchild.

Check this out:

http://www.carvinguitars.com/product...p?product=MB15

32 LBS 200w at 8 ohms tons of features only $369

[fourfinger]

I have recently played through GK MB112 and MB115 combos. Both sound great for 200W amps. My thought would be -- if you play a 5-string, keep to the 15, otherwise the 12. YMMV

[zon6c-f]

Not science, [ I cannot dispute Bill Fitzmaurice and the fEarful crowd]...just my opinion: Buy a new or used [ GC] Acoustic B200 combo. It has plenty of bang for the buck: 1-15 @ 4 ohms. Very broad semi parametric tone bank, Line-out for PA.

A few more bucks? B200 head and separate cabs. More $$? Buy the AC 600 model and you'll be up with Marshall guitar amps. My 2cents.

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Like all compromises combos don't do anything particularly well. Get separates.

I'd say that no combo does everything well, but a good combo does well in its sweet spot. I have a regular Thursday night gig for which the Walkabout is a perfect fit--right size, right tone at the right volume for the gig, form factor simplifies travel and load-in, etc.

I take it in preference to other options that are louder and/or lighter and/or more tonally versatile b/c it's the right tool for that job, without compromises.

[Sartori]

I gig regularly with a single 15" speaker in my folk/rock band.

I would not feel comfortable using a single 12" however.

Also, even with only the one speaker, I still use a separate head and cab.

[vin*tone]

I don't get this whole 'combos are a compromise' thing. When it comes down to it every cabinet is a compromise... and then there's the added compromise of convenience. How does sticking 2 "un-compromised" parts: a head and a cab together automatically make them compromised? Is an airhead cabinet compromised (eg: TC RS210)? is a bergantino IP112 compromised? Sometimes convenience is the defining factor.

I have an MB112 for practices and a gigging rig - Walkabout head and 2xDB112 ..... and in some applications the tone from the GK combo is actually better than the WA+DB112 combination.

That said... to the OP given that you are buying a gigging rig I recommend you get separates as you may wish to chop and change them in future.

[rodl2005]

+1. The Walkabout is a superb 'compromise' imo.

[Adam Bomb]

IMO, the era of the "combos vs. separates" debate ended when GK released the MB line. Probably earlier. I traded in my head and cab for two combos and never looked back.* Just suits my needs better. I have yet to see a piece of gear that wasn't a compromise in some way. YMMV.

--Bomb

*at least as far as my gig rig goes; in hindsight, I could've used the cab for the practice space.