Compare RH750 and Steamliner 900

[guy n. cognito]

I'm in the market for a new amp. I am looking at lightweight heads, and have narrowed it down to the RH750 and the Streamliner 900. Both have power I need at 8 ohms. Anyone have experience with both (or their lower-powered counterparts)?

I've been quite pleased with all of my GB gear. The tone is fantastic and the customer service is top notch. I haven't had a chance to audition the RH first hand, but I am intrigued by the onboard tuner and compressor, as it would allow me to completely eliminate my pedalboard.

[::::BASSIST::::]

I tried hard to like the rh450 for the reasons you mentioned, but from the tone clips of the streamliner I think it will work better for your 15/6. The rh450 just didnt have enough true low-end for my tastes.

[GrowlerBox]

There was a thread comparing the RH450 with the Streamliner soon after the latter was released -- it's been closed, but there was some useful information, particularly from KJung, who also has a Youtube video comparing them (ignore the stuff in the thread about tube failures, as that all seems to have been sorted to everyone's satisfaction). I opted for the TCE head, more because of its additional features, but the tone works for me. I suspect I would have been happy with the Streamliner tone too.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

There was a thread comparing the RH450 with the Streamliner soon after the latter was released -- it's been closed, but there was some useful information, particularly from KJung, who also has a Youtube video comparing them (ignore the stuff in the thread about tube failures, as that all seems to have been sorted to everyone's satisfaction). I opted for the TCE head, more because of its additional features, but the tone works for me. I suspect I would have been happy with the Streamliner tone too.

Thank you. I hadn't refined my search enough to find that yet.

Through Ken's camera and my mid-range headphones, I really can't tell a dramatic difference between the two.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

I tried hard to like the rh450 for the reasons you mentioned, but from the tone clips of the streamliner I think it will work better for your 15/6. The rh450 just didnt have enough true low-end for my tastes.

Good to know. I prefer a thicker low-end tone, smooth mids and rolled-off high-high end.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Good to know. I prefer a thicker low-end tone, smooth mids and rolled-off high-high end.

What you get out of either head will depend greatly on what instrument and cabinet(s) you have it attached to. I don't have any problem with the TC's low-end, and like you, like the low mids and the rolled-off top end. I like what little I've played of Genz gear, and they have astonishing CS. I'm not sure the Streamliner has the roll-off you're aiming for "built in" (which the TC does), but that's what knobs are for, right?

[burk48237]

My feeling is, that the Streamliner equals "old school" and the RH equals "modern J". Both have a nice natural warm low end, but the Streamliners has a bit more tube grunt. KJungs Streamliner sounds great with his Nordy P Bass and Alleva LG, but with his Sadowsky J and his Alleva LM I believe he prefers, and I know I prefer the RH. This was after lots of testing with the AE 410. They are both excellent amps and neither sounds bad at any application. My personal preferences for most things is the RH, I actually like my Thunderfunks low end a touch better, but the RH and the Thuderfunk are VERY close.

[5StringPocket]

I have an SL900 and love it but the original topic was Compare RH750 and Steamliner 900 and I haven't seen anything on the RH750 yet. It seems to have a very nice feature set. I'd like to take one for a spin. One bit I saw was this:

The TC Electronic RH750 continues TC Electronic’s Bass Amp 2.0 quest of bringing a whole new set of features to bass players. RH750 captures the essence of this new revolutionary concept with a built-in chromatic tuner, three presets and jaw-dropping tone shaping abilities combined with immense power and stunning bass tone.

The new RH750 raises the bass bar to new heights. First of all, it jams significant power into its compact design – 750 watts (1200 watts peak). Secondly, a new TweeterTone knob, offering “intelligent HF control”, takes RH750 from old-school vintage tones to crisp and modern bass tones or anything in between in seconds. RH750 and RH450 are obviously related, RH750 simply takes it up a notch!

TC Electronic | RH750 | Features

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by 5StringPocket

I have an SL900 and love it but the original topic was Compare RH750 and Steamliner 900 and I haven't seen anything on the RH750 yet.

That's true, but to be fair, the OP did include "their lower-powered counterparts" in the terms of comparison. Not many people will have both, and almost no-one will have much mileage on their RH750s yet.

[5StringPocket]

Agreed. Headroom difference aside, I think the TweeterTone control would provide a better range of tones and add some brightness the RH450 doesn't have. This would probably add points for the RH750. If the SpectraComp (common to both) provides even timbre across the strings that would be icing on the cake.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by 5StringPocket

Agreed. Headroom difference aside, I think the TweeterTone control would provide a better range of tones and add some brightness the RH450 doesn't have. This would probably add points for the RH750. If the SpectraComp (common to both) provides even timbre across the strings that would be icing on the cake.

Yes. I think the Tweetertone would be a very useful feature for many, although I suspect not so much for me (I have to keep telling myself that ...) as my BFM cab with the 16-piezo array is inherently bright -- I couldn't have them switched in at all with my Markbass F1. The other thing about using highly efficient cabs is that I have all the headroom I could want with "just" 450 W.

I use the Spectracomp very sparingly, and find it does just as you describe, giving the higher strings on my EUB a little "lift", especially up in thumb position, while leaving the dynamic range of the heavier strings virtually untouched.

[RHCP250]

Originally Posted by burk48237

My feeling is, that the Streamliner equals "old school" and the RH equals "modern J". Both have a nice natural warm low end, but the Streamliners has a bit more tube grunt. KJungs Streamliner sounds great with his Nordy P Bass and Alleva LG, but with his Sadowsky J and his Alleva LM I believe he prefers, and I know I prefer the RH. This was after lots of testing with the AE 410. They are both excellent amps and neither sounds bad at any application. My personal preferences for most things is the RH, I actually like my Thunderfunks low end a touch better, but the RH and the Thuderfunk are VERY close.

TF550?

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by RHCP250

TF550?

Yeah, the 550, I haven't heard a 750 yet, and I've heard mixed reviews of it. I was also referring to the RH450 for reference sakes. Here's a thread KJung and I did comparing the two amps. They are very close in sound.



Thunderfunk550 and TC RH450 clip

[gregbackstrom]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I'm in the market for a new amp. I am looking at lightweight heads, and have narrowed it down to the RH750 and the Streamliner 900. Both have power I need at 8 ohms. Anyone have experience with both (or their lower-powered counterparts)?

I've been quite pleased with all of my GB gear. The tone is fantastic and the customer service is top notch. I haven't had a chance to audition the RH first hand, but I am intrigued by the onboard tuner and compressor, as it would allow me to completely eliminate my pedalboard.

Hi Guy!

I have both amps, although I haven't had either of them long enough to form a conclusive opinion. But since I just played a four hour gig Saturday with my new RH750, I have a few thoughts to share:

1. These amps are completely different. The Streamliner still reminds me more of my DB-750, while the RH750 probably reminds me more of a Demeter VTBP-201s/ Stewart World 2.1 rig (but with lots more features, of course).

2. I used the RH750 with my Bergie AE410 cabinet. I love that cabinet with the Streamliner 900, but I think I'd like the AE 212 a little better with the RH 750. With the RH750/AE410, I felt like I had to fiddle with the upper mids to get the right sound. With the Streamliner 900, it was just "there" all the time.

3. The Streamliner is EASY to figure out. While there's flexibility for adjustment, it's one of those amps that gets you to your sound right away. The RH750 is the polar opposite of that. There are MANY tweaks available, all of which contribute to ---or detract from---the musicality of your sound.

4. Both amps are "more than powerful enough." I never felt like I was running out of steam using either one.

So ... which would I pick if I could only have one of them? The jury's still out! I have LOTS more playing to do before I have a handle on these amps! The easier call is the Streamliner 900. Great sound, great CSI, great value, and if my only cabinet was the AE410, I'd be done! But the RH750 is a complex beast, capable of assuming many tonal profiles! I think it'll take me months to figure out how to get MY sound out of this amp. And I'm sure that MY sound is in it!

So I'm going to take my time and figure these amps out. I'm guessing there's much more to learn about the "simpler" Streamliner, and WAY more to learn about the RH 750.

What a great time to be a bass player!!!

Good luck with your decision!
Greg

[lo-freq]

~'scribed~

[IntrepidCellist]

For my tone goals, for my basses, and through my rig, the RH450 and Staccato sound much better than the Streamliner to me.

However, I have yet to play the RH750, and I actually really, really liked the Aguilar TH500. So, my "amp choice" is still up in the air.

[Eublet]

The default voicing of the two heads are very different. I don't have an RH750 yet, but I've had the RH450 almost since they first came out. It's a wonderfull head, and you can make it do a lot of things if you know how to work an EQ, and I don't mean just twisting knobs until you hear something you like. You have to understand about frequency centers, knees, how boosting one thing affects others, especially when boosting and cutting frequencies that are close to one another.

That said, side by side I could make my RH450 sound virtually IDENTICAL to the Streamliner's flat voicing, except for some treble cut on the Streamliner to help level the playing field since the RH450 doesn't have an extended treble voice. The treble cut on the Streamliner didn't complete remove that top end glass though, and if I cut it even more to try and do that, it started sounding muted and muffled versus the RH450. But lows and mids, it sounded identical to my ear, both through a cab and on a recording. I believe the RH750's Tweetertone control will let you open up that top end so that it could faithfully sound like a Streamliner.

I know folks will say those 3 real tubes in the Streamliner can't be simulated or replicated. Maybe so, but I feel pretty darn confident I could fool most of those folks in a blindfold test.

In my comparisons and testing (I even took scopes of the two heads to help judge my EQ settings), the RH450 was almost as powerful as the SL900 through a 4ohm 212 cabinet. Since the RH450's flat voicing is not nearly as bass-heavy as the SL900, you have too boost the low end considerably to get it there. This takes power of course, so the RH450 EQ'ed this way doesn't quite have the push of the Streamliner 900. Still, TC's wattage rating has seemed very modest to me from the beginning, since the RH has outperformed everything I've ever compared it to in the same wattage class. I think the RH750 will likely outperform the Streamliner when the EQ's are setup so that the comparison is more apples to apples.

The Classic450 will not be able to sound like a Streamliner simply because the set frequency points don't allow you to control the right areas you need to cut and boost.

I posted in another thread here what the starting point was for getting the Streamliner tone on a TC head. Here's the starting point.

1) Adjust frequency centers
-Bass - all the way to the left, which is around 71 hz
-Low Mids - all the way to the left, which is around 200 hz
-High mids - 2 or 3 clicks left of center, which is around 700 hz
-Treble - This is the tricky one, but experiment with all the way to the
right (to try and bring back the sizzle), or flat to bring in more grind.

2) Cut and boost
-Bass - Boost 4 or 5 clicks, perhaps more depending on your cab's voicing
-Low mids - Boost 2 or 3 clicks, or roughly half of your bass boost
-Hi mids - Cut this by 1 or 2 clicks. Remember that on the RH heads,
cutting is twice as deep as boosting by the same amount.
-Treble - again, experiment for what sounds best with your cabs, boosting as needed

3) Compressor - this can be on or off, but the RH compressor is not what I'd call transparent at all. It sounds great, but not transparent. I thickens up the tone a good bit as you turn it up, so only dial it up 3 or 4 clicks. You might not even show any gain reduction at this setting. That's cool. It's still working and changing the tone slightly.

4) Tubetone - for a clean Streamliner tone, add just a touch, maybe 2-3 clicks max.

This is the STARTING point for the Streamliner tone. If the SL still sounds more bassy to you, then dial in more lows on the RH. If you are cutting lows on the SL like so many here seem to be, then this might be all you need to do. Also, you might have to cut more hi-mids on the RH to get the more polite high-mid sound from the SL. Cut another notch there.

The RH heads are crazy tweakable, and the 750 will take it to a new level I believe. Conversely, the Streamliner is what it is...streamlined. It is fat and warm, but it can be difficult to nudge it in other directions.

[Dr Funk]

Is anyone able to update with a little more time into this comparison. I just sold my Streamliner 900 but I still have my S9.0. I am interested in the RH750 because I had a RH450 and Staccato 51 and loved everything about them except, headroom/power, low extension and lack of highs, it just could not get crisp and smooth up top. The increased HP solves the headroom issues but what about the other 2? The Streamliner was just way too flubby sounding to me very inarticulate, mid presence lacking. I use Epi UL2 cabs on all gigs, a UL610 at 95% of them.

[dave_bass5]

Send a PM to Musicman20 (Gareth). He has both (and has had a RH450) although i dont think he has gigged either yet.

[Musicman20]

Yep, as Dave says, any questions, let me know. The 750, in my experience, is the loudest micro out there at the moment.

It's much more flexible.

However, the SL900 is also a great amp, lovely huge low end and heft to the notes, little more easy to setup (usually), although the 750 sounds great flat.