convince me to swap my 810E for a 70s flatback

beebassdude · #1 07-27-2010, 10:37 PM

so i have a chance to buy a sweet 70s ampeg flatback 810 cab. to be honest i like my 2000's 810E but it seems like the unanimous vote is that if you have a chance to snag a flatback cab, youd be insane not to. so what are the real differences in these two cabs? can the older ones withstand more punishment? do they just "sound better"? are they built better? better speakers? better response? id be running it with an SVT-VR into the flatback 810 and an SVT 215E. im just wondering what the real differences are and why its worth it.

and it wont take much convincing, i pretty much covet anything old and ampeg lol! but try anyways!

rbonner · #2 07-27-2010, 10:46 PM

Take your VR and drive a pair of vintage 810's.

The speakers were 50 watt speakers, the cab plywood. The system as designed was a pair with a single head. Then they changed the cabs to chipboard and put 100 watt drivers in and it lost tone. The 300W head just doesn't have enough power to whomp a pair of cabs and you need two heads to do it modern product.. But the new 810's are much nicer cabs. I have three of the new plywood cabs and two of the older OSB cabs... I also have a pair of 215's so I've comapred them all.

There was a pair of vintage cabs on ebay and a pair of heads that closed this weekend at almost $5000.

Have at it.

BOB

beebassdude · #3 07-27-2010, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbonner

Take your VR and drive a pair of vintage 810's.

The speakers were 50 watt speakers, the cab plywood. The system as designed was a pair with a single head. Then they changed the cabs to chipboard and put 100 watt drivers in and it lost tone. The 300W head just doesn't have enough power to whomp a pair of cabs and you need two heads to do it modern product.. But the new 810's are much nicer cabs. I have three of the new plywood cabs and two of the older OSB cabs... I also have a pair of 215's so I've comapred them all.

There was a pair of vintage cabs on ebay and a pair of heads that closed this weekend at almost $5000.

Have at it.

BOB

you mean the newer ones are nicer just in terms of design? easy to move around/towel bar/ better wheels?

and im assuming those old speakers can take a pretty solid beating? obviously if theyre rated for half the wattage of the new ones they probably break up a lot earlier and sound dirtier, which is what i want, i just dont wanna destroy them.

but youve convinced me! haha

JimmyM · #4 07-27-2010, 11:29 PM

i don't know, beebass. if you intend on punishing your cab, it probably wouldn't be my first choice. clearly the best sounding cab of them all, and it will take more than the 250w ampeg used to claim, but i wouldn't go beating it up by cranking an svt into the red. on another note, though the towel bar cabs are easier to move, the cts speakers are clearly superior tonally to any subsequent speakers they used, although these new legend b810's eminence has look very promising.

if only you didn't want to beat them up, i'd say go for it, but i honestly don't think they'll take it for very long.

johnk_10 · #5 07-28-2010, 12:01 AM

if it were me, i'd swap my 2000's 810 for a straightback without any hesitation, since i'll take tone over power handling any day.

coreyfyfe · #6 07-28-2010, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

if only you didn't want to beat them up, i'd say go for it, but i honestly don't think they'll take it for very long.

I don't know, I had been punishing mine with my V4 and my effects setup and it took it with a smile. I've only done a few gigs with the SVT, and they were cover work, so I doubt I've hit it as hard, but we do quite a few pop tunes where I'm filling in for synth bass with a lot of fuzz and/or octaves (with either a HOG or BMS) and haven't blown things up yet. And if you planned on running a 215 you'd probably be less likely to really push the 8x10 since you'd have an extra cab for more volume. I'd definitely say go for it.

beebassdude · #7 07-28-2010, 07:54 AM

the loudest i ever get my SVT is to about 1pm, which is crazy loud, but it will be run with a 215 at the same time, so i dont know how much punishment that would be on those old speakers. i have to imagine tho that back in the day these things were specifically made to be killed with 70s SVTs which push just about juice as my VR does. and ill have a ton of fuzz in front of it too which should saturate it a little, i wont be pushing it at clean into vintage overdrive mode.

im gonna at least try out the cab, im definitely looking forward to it.

rbonner · #8 07-29-2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beebassdude

you mean the newer ones are nicer just in terms of design? easy to move around/towel bar/ better wheels?

and im assuming those old speakers can take a pretty solid beating? obviously if theyre rated for half the wattage of the new ones they probably break up a lot earlier and sound dirtier, which is what i want, i just dont wanna destroy them.

but youve convinced me! haha

No the new ones are back to plywood and better speakers than the 2000's chipboard cabs.

But Jimmy is right if you pound on the CTS speakers they'd probably fall apart. you'd want to have a pair of cabs...

They'd sound great right up until you dialtoned them though.

BOB

beebassdude · #9 07-29-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbonner

No the new ones are back to plywood and better speakers than the 2000's chipboard cabs.

But Jimmy is right if you pound on the CTS speakers they'd probably fall apart. you'd want to have a pair of cabs...

They'd sound great right up until you dialtoned them though.

BOB

i would be running it with a 215E with the VR, at 2 ohms. so it would have help from the 215 for sure.

ill be testing this out on saturday. hopefully its mine by monday.

johnk_10 · #10 07-29-2010, 09:57 AM

IME, with the volume set at 1 o'clock, that's full power on an SVT. anything past that isn't really any louder, just more distorted.

beebassdude · #11 07-29-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

IME, with the volume set at 1 o'clock, that's full power on an SVT. anything past that isn't really any louder, just more distorted.

my V4 is like that. around 12 o'clock is about all itll go before it just starts getting more distorted. i know my VR sounded like it could actually keep going past 1pm, but i never wanted to push it that far.

but im gonna test the VR with the flatback on saturday. im hoping it sounds awesome. i also have to make sure none of the speakers were ever swapped, as thats the main reason id want to swap cabs.

BigOldHarry · #12 07-29-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbonner

...Then they changed the cabs to chipboard a...
BOB

Good lord... I didn't know Ampeg went to chipboard...

I would *never* buy a cab made of MDF or composite (unless I had no choice...)

bad bad bad. When did they do THAT? When LOUD took over??

gbarchus · #13 07-29-2010, 10:46 AM

I owned two of the flatback, CTS equipped SVT cabinets and they were rated at 240 watts originally. It was quite easy to blow up the speakers using just one cabinet.

With the newer cabinets they added a tweeter to add high frequencies that were lost when making them higher powered.

You could really make an old (CTS) cabinet sing with a 300 watt SVT. You just had to be careful.

Gale

rbonner · #14 07-29-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

Good lord... I didn't know Ampeg went to chipboard...

I would *never* buy a cab made of MDF or composite (unless I had no choice...)

bad bad bad. When did they do THAT? When LOUD took over??

No that was an SLM invention, they went back to plywood with LOUD and the cabs are a lot less dark.

But you know... I have a guy supposedly coming over to buy one of my cabs today. I hooked it up and played it a bunch this AM.. Even the OSB cab sounds pretty darn good when you aren't comparing it directly to the new ones. The new ones are a slight bit brighter. I went between my 410HLF and the 810 a bunch of times... They both sounded good.

BOB

coreyfyfe · #15 07-29-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbarchus

With the newer cabinets they added a tweeter to add high frequencies that were lost when making them higher powered.

The new 810s are still tweeter-less.

JimmyM · #16 07-29-2010, 11:33 AM

btw, beebass, i would like to congratulate you for breaking the stereotype of the bassist with the deluxe custom bass using only solid state heads with tweetered cabs

ampegfuzz · #17 07-29-2010, 02:00 PM

So from what I can tell I'm missing the "tone boat" with iirc my "slm" 810e? I bought that cab new around 2000/2001. I run an older svt and really never thought to get a older cab since I had the cab way before I had the head.

JimmyM · #18 07-29-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampegfuzz

So from what I can tell I'm missing the "tone boat" with iirc my "slm" 810e? I bought that cab new around 2000/2001. I run an older svt and really never thought to get a older cab since I had the cab way before I had the head.

well if you're happy with it, then there's no problem. but if you ask me, yes, the other cabs are way better sounding. for my thing, that is. i have heard from a few folks who actually prefer those cabs from your era, so if you're one of them, you're set.

beebassdude · #19 07-29-2010, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

btw, beebass, i would like to congratulate you for breaking the stereotype of the bassist with the deluxe custom bass using only solid state heads with tweetered cabs

well i cant take too much credit, i dont use my bee bass with this rig. i use the V4/VR and 4 cabs for my doom/stoner band, and the bass i use is an '81 gibson grabber. something about a 6 string queen bee doesnt scream metal ya know? lol

the bee is played thru a LMII and an aggie 212. so i love all types of amps/cabs, as long as they sound good for what im trying to do.

JimmyM · #20 07-29-2010, 06:29 PM

haha, all the militant 6 and 7 stringers on here are going to give you crap for that one

but if it makes you feel better, i agree with you.