Crazy8 and Crazy88

[nutdog]

In an effort to cement my reputation as the world's laziest bass player I just put a deposit down for a composite Crazy88. It's designed for DB but appears to be suitable for other acoustic instruments as well as EB and PA use.

There are threads on the DB side:

Arnopol 8 Cabinet - A Winner!
Acoustic Cab Shootout

I didn't see anything about it in the EB section and I think it is deserving of some buzz over here.

It's a greenboy and Mike Arnopol design collaboration using the Faital Pro 8PR200 8 inch driver with an xmax of 8.15. Unlike the fEARful design where the plans are available for anyone to use, these are only available from authorized builders.

Specs as I've been able to gather from various posts on TB and the fEARful forum:

Crazy8:
8ohm
200 watts
10.5"w x13"h x 11.25"d
Composite weight with optional tweeter: 13lbs
Composite weight no tweeter: 9lbs
Wood weight with tweeter: 16lbs

Crazy88:
4ohm
400 watts
10.75"w x 21.5"h x 13"d
Composite weight (only available with tweeter): 20lbs
Wood weight: ??

I invite corrections and more info from anyone that may have them.

Crazy 8 (with optional tweeter):




Barry Audio's wood version in at 16lbs:





Crazy88 (comes with tweeter):

[nutdog]

Here is what Mike is saying about the 88 for electric bass:

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Simple physics is really in play here. You take the aera of the cone and multiply it by the maximum linear excursion and it will give you a reasonable idea of what you can expect as far as volume. So when I look at the 10" speakers out there I can get make the statement that the Crazy 8 will at least match the volume of any 10 out there. When you put 2 together you're about at the same level as a typical 210 or what I'll call a "typical" 12. When you put 3 together you're getting in the realm of the "super 12's" or a typical 15, Make sense?

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Size is 21.5 x 10.75 x 13" deep.

Weight is 20 lbs. on the button. Just had a friend over to try all the cabs in the house. He and I both agreed that the 88 had the best mids and highs we'd ever heard. The bass is no slouch either. It (the bass) sounded very similar to the Thunderchild TC112 with one port plugged. Which is to say very focused and tight with just enough "bloom". I have my own 112 cab with a 3012ho (VERY similar to a Barefaced Midget) and a Greenboy Bassic with a 3015. They both really cut through in the mids department. The 88 had enough presence to cut through but without any harshness. As Greenboy says " I can't find anything that this cab does wrong". You can't push it past the volume of a 2x 10 cab.(although we did--it just doesn't fart out--) It will meet it but physics are physics. Thanks for all of the interest!

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Just played a super loud gig with 5 string electric. Crazy 88 on top of a Crazy 8. Articulate, loud deep tight bass. Sounded fantastic. Best definition I've ever gotten Huge room, bad acoustics everyone commented on that they could hear everything I played. Lots of compliments.

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

As far as e-bass, it's become my go-to setup. But you have to use multiples for loud. A C88 will go as loud as a typical 2x10. A C88 + a C8 work great for most setups where things are LOUD. I know it's pricey (well, less so for me) when you start adding up the multiples, but the convenience and flexibility go a long way. I went to a gig last Saturday--parked 2 blocks away. Lakland on my back, Doubler on my shoulder and a C88 in one hand and a C8 in the other. Didn't break a sweat.

[nutdog]

And here is Ukiah Bass’s report on his electric bass experience with the crazy8. I’ve also posted his DB review because the pictures are great for showing the size.

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

I bought Mike's first commercial Crazy8. It arrived today. Very well packed. And it sounds amazing! My gold standard is an LDS 12/6 cab - one of the so-called "super 12s." It's slightly smaller than a 210 and weighs about 35 pounds. I've wanted something substantially smaller and lighter for low-volume jazz gigs but alternatives have not sounded as good. I bought the Genz Benz 10T and Acme B-1 and neither one were as clear and true as the 12/6. When I fired up the Crazy8, I immediately knew this cab is a sonic jewel, especially for acoustic bass. The tweeter is especially effective and adds a bit of air and openness that sounds perfect. You immediately notice the loss when the tweeter attenuator is turned off. The quality of your construction is all pro. I can't believe what a tone machine this is in such a portable form factor! And the weight - just 13.5 pounds!!! Feels like a toy it's so light. But such a quality piece of gear. Seeing the Crazy8 for the first time sends a slight shock, as in seeing another pathbreaking invention like iPhone or iPad. It's a quality job of miniaturization.

Mike was a pro in producing this cab. We had timely email and phone calls that clearly handled every detail. He collaborated with GreenBoy in designing this cab. GB built the crossover, which is smoothly enables terrific tone throughout the sonic spectrum. Both encouraged me to go with the tweeter as this cab is for acoustic bass guitar (a Rob Allen Deep 4). I'm glad I got the tweeter.

The quality of construction is excellent. Good attention to detail. All screws are secured with a nut, which is important used with the composite walls. The tilt-back legs are top notch and the implementation is perfect as the chosen position adds stability. Because of the steep angle, the face of the cab directly points at my head when I stand about 6-7 feet in front. Sonic dispersion is excellent nearby on the sides. The cab sounded terrific out of the box with all EQ settings flat. It sounded drop dead gorgeous when I plugged in an Empress ParaEQ and slightly boosted bass at about 90Hz, lower mids @ 250Hz, and slightly cut highs.

Volume wise, this will easily handle any jazz combo or small gig. Probably up to mid-sized situations, too. We'll have to see how it sounds out in the audience in a gig setting. I suspect it will do fine.

I'm very enthusiastic about the Crazy8. I will share other reactions as I get more experience with the cab, especially playing it in a band/performance context. Meanwhile, here are photos to convey an idea of how small this powerhouse of a cab is. First shots are of the Crazy8; others compare it to the 12-6.

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

This is a bit off topic and is for those of you who might be wondering if the Crazy8 could work for a doubler. My experience is short, but I'm super pleased with Crazy8 for acoustic bass. It is perfect for small jazz gigs, coffee houses, etc. and may surprise with adequate presence in larger venues. When micing a cab for recording acoustic bass, I will use the Crazy8 instead of my 12/6. It will definitely be my home studio cab of choice for acoustic. The Crazy8 would be more than enough as a stage monitor for acoustic. If you're going through the PA, the Crazy8 is all you'll need.

As for electric bass, up till now no miniature cab I've tried has matched the quality of my LDS 12/6 "Super 12" cab. How well would Crazy8 work with my Fender Aerodyne Jazz bass, which is configured as a P bass, treble on full, and groundwound strings? I plugged it into an Empress ParaEQ and EA Micro and the 12/6. I must admit a bias of not favoring the EA Micro for my Fender. The Micro sounds great but I prefer a tube amp for the classic phat girth of that instrument. But since the EA Micro was already out, I played the Fender through the 12/6 and then switched it into the Crazy8. The Fender + Crazy8 is very responsive to EQ. Excellent tone and presence for a cab this small. Nice. If I had a gig in a small venue where people would be talking, eating, etc. and volume would be temperate, I'd definitely use the Crazy8. The 12/6 has more presence but it also has a LOT more cone space so that's hardly fair. However, if I were going to mike a cab w/my Fender and record from that feed - and I was using the EA Micro - I'd go with the 12/6. You might prefer otherwise as one person's sonic preferences may vary from another's.

But here is where it gets interesting. For my Fender and the 12/6 (or larger 15/6), I prefer to use a Genz Benz Streamliner 900. This micro amp has a 3-stage tube preamp so the tone is classic clean tube. You can add dirt with effectiveness. I prefer clean tube. So I swapped out the EA Micro for the Streamliner and WOW. Obviously, you'd have the same gig volume limitations mentioned above, but with EQ, the Fender + Crazy8 virtually matched the tone and girthy feeling of the 12/6. To get there I had to boost bass and mid-bass EQ to more extreme settings and cut highs. I also had to boost the volume louder to make the Crazy8 sound/feel the same as the 12/6. But it worked. I was surprised at how effective the Crazy8 is with a tube amp. Not only would I gig Crazy8 with electric, I would use it for recording with this configuration.

I might feel just as comfortable recording the Fender with the EA Micro if I experimented with EQ but didn't go there because I like the Streamliner better for that application.

In sum, Crazy8 should do fine for a doubler provided you are prepared to use more extreme EQ and not expect loud volumes required by some electric bass applications. Over time as more Crazy8s get out there, we'll learn more about this cab's utility. So far, everything I've learned is very good. Well done, Mike & Greenboy!

[swspiers]

Wow!

Anybody else have experience with these yet?

[CL400Peavey]

Great looking cabs, and good reviews posted.

Just to clarify, these are a Greenboy design. Mike is one of the authorized builders of these cabs. I believe any of the authorized builders can build these, although some do not work in composite materials.

[Mike Arnopol]

Just to clarify---these cabs are a JOINT design. Greenboy and I collaborated and made the internal volume slightly bigger. Green boy is totally responsible for the x over. I had posted pics of my completed 8' cab before Greenboy and I talked. Looks virtually identical.
The only reason I'm saying this is that I spent a lot of time making different cabs and testing them--the review of the cab on the DB side was before we talked. I really like working with Greenboy---we argue and bounce ideas off each other and hopefully come out with better products.
This stuff isn't magic. Greenboy and I were both driver shopping and came up with the ONLY driver that could do what the Faital does. And we both came up with extremely similar designs.
I just mention this (probably because of ego) because I take great pride in the collaboration of design on a truly unique and (in it's own small way) groundbreaking product.

[5StringPocket]

A pair of composite 88's would make a killer small PA or stereo as well as a slammin bass rig. Beautifully done!

[Mike Arnopol]

Thanks
A pair of 88's is my go to loud rig these days. A customer just bought a pair for PA use. Another current customer ordered an additional 2 C8's for pa use.

[Mike Arnopol]

We've made an improvement to the 88. It now has a single 4" precision port on the back. This gives about an additional 3db of low end with little or no port turbulence. These little 8's put out even more than I anticipated and this change allows their performance to improve.

[cybersnyder]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

We've made an improvement to the 88. It now has a single 4" precision port on the back. This gives about an additional 3db of low end with little or no port turbulence. These little 8's put out even more than I anticipated and this change allows their performance to improve.

I would have never even considered 2x8, but I played through one with an Focus head and it sounded really nice. Definitely easy to transport.

[nutdog]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

We've made an improvement to the 88. It now has a single 4" precision port on the back. This gives about an additional 3db of low end with little or no port turbulence. These little 8's put out even more than I anticipated and this change allows their performance to improve.

Do I get the improvement?

[barryaudio]

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

I would have never even considered 2x8, but I played through one with an Focus head and it sounded really nice. Definitely easy to transport.

Neither would I but these new drivers have really turned me into a believer.

[Jazzdogg]

Love the sound of the Crazy8 with DB and fretless electric 5-string. I'll be ordering an 88 from Mike soon - and selling the rest of my bass cabs.

[nutdog]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Love the sound of the Crazy8 with DB and fretless electric 5-string. I'll be ordering an 88 from Mike soon - and selling the rest of my bass cabs.

Thanks for the comment. I don't mind saying I'm a little nervous. But I'm not gigging much and I don't get super loud when I do. I'm hoping this 20lb box will handle what my current 40lb 210 does.

I don't play DB but I do some acoustic guitar and singing stuff that this could handle. If it works out I may add another for a bass rig that doubles as mini PA.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by nutdog

Thanks for the comment. I don't mind saying I'm a little nervous. But I'm not gigging much and I don't get super loud when I do. I'm hoping this 20lb box will handle what my current 40lb 210 does.

I don't play DB but I do some acoustic guitar and singing stuff that this could handle. If it works out I may add another for a bass rig that doubles as mini PA.

I have to really watch the volume with my Crazy8, otherwise, my neighbors complain about the sound of bass emanating through the walls, and the sound of pictures and photographs falling from my walls and crashing to the floor distracts me from the music. Seriously, although the laws of physics cannot be overcome, this is NOT a tinny or small-sounding cab.

My DB signal chain is:
FDeck HPF/Pre --> Fishman Pro Platinum --> iAmp800 --> Crazy8.

The Crazy8 is capable of reproducing the sound of a low B without complaint at reasonable volumes; I prefer the timbre with the DEEP button on my iAmp engaged and the lows rolled off with the HPF; this may seem counterintuitive, but the sound is divine. This cab produces low bass and rich mids that, finally, after more than 40 years of playing, give me the holy grail of DB: the sound of my DB, only louder.

And I've never heard my fretless 55-02 sound better.

I doubt you'll be disappointed.

[JxBass]

My Crazy8 order is in

[Ukiah Bass]

Originally Posted by JxBass

My Crazy8 order is in

You're in for a treat. I'm only playing my Rob Allen Deep 4 lately and it sounds amazing with the Crazy 8. It's hard to imagine that deep rich full tone coming from such a tiny lightweight box. Acoustic bass bliss.

[JxBass]

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

You're in for a treat. I'm only playing my Rob Allen Deep 4 lately and it sounds amazing with the Crazy 8. It's hard to imagine that deep rich full tone coming from such a tiny lightweight box. Acoustic bass bliss.

Yes, I'm pretty psyched. I've been thinking about a small cab for awhile, thought seriously about a Barefaced Midget, but I think the Crazy8 is the ticket. Between it, my Acme Low B-112, and Thunderchild 115 I feel pretty lucky to have three great cabs

[Mike Arnopol]

Guys---I just received the prototype of the Eminence Defend unit. This is likely to be a BIG game changer. It is essentially a small board thet mounts inside the cab and is a DSP that runs on the speaker voltage. It is a programmable HPF and limiter. It is supposedly super transparent. If it does what others that I trust have told me it can provide the HPF and just chop off peaks in a way that is unnoticeable (unless you use too much limiting) It literally should make a Crazy 8 compete with 12's---I'm afraid what it will do for the 88! I'll keep y'all (as they would say at Eminence in Kentucky) posted. And it's not supposed to be pricey at all.

[Mike Arnopol]

Originally Posted by nutdog

Do I get the improvement?

yup