Crazy8 and Crazy88

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by TravTrav

..... why are these so expensive?

Because just like a divorce, they are worth it.

[barryaudio]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

-this is like if you wanted to make a plywood cabinet but had to make the plywood too!

So true! What Mike does to push the envelope of weight is really pretty cool.

[iualum]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

Because just like a divorce, they are worth it.

LOL!

[Basically Bob]

Originally Posted by Basically Bob

I can hardly wait until Wednesday night's gig in the "room of doom" to hear how she does in the real world. Will be sure to give y'all an update.

My back and ears thank you, Mike!

Oh ... forgot to mention, at 21.5 lbs, she's just about a pound lighter than my bass, cord and strap in it's case!

One gig in the "room of doom" this past Wednesday with my new 88 and a Shuttle 3.0.. This combo had no problem delivering the goods, here. Two electric guitars, keys, drums and me on bass. Small boomy room with about 40 people. The mids, were very present and more defined than what I normally hear with an AE112. The bottom end was good, also. The Shuttle 3.0 10T combo doesn't keep up here, but the 3.0 / 88 mini rig certainly does and with it, I am able to control the boom more effectively.

Also rehearsed with another band last night. Much louder, than the venue above, with two electric guitars, one acoustic guitar, three vocals, keys and me. Vocals and acoustic guitar through the PA. I used my Markbass F1 with the 88. (no-show drummer)

The boys in the band were very impressed and so was I. Again, the mids were very present and defined; a little more so (I believe) than with the F1/Berg AE112 half-stack I normally use here.

The bottom end, however, seemed to be getting lost in the mix, without much punch and definition at higher volumes. I'm not sure if this has to do with the 88 or the head. I know that the F1 lows are centered at 40Hz and the Shuttle's is centered at 80Hz. At next week's rehearsal I will take both my Shuttle 6.2 and 3.0 to hear what the difference is.

I am rehearsing, tonight, in a church that seats about 150. We have solid PA support, here, and I will be using the 88 with my Shuttle 3.0. The acoustics at this church are awesome with virtually no ring back at all and I am always amazed at how good the 3.0 sounds here.

Saturday night's gig (in a bar) is a large private birthday party and expect it to be quite loud so the 88 is staying home. (will be using my Streamliner 600 with 2, AE112s).

... thumpin' the bass 5 days in a row this week.

[Basically Bob]

Here's a picture of the cover I had made for my 88 at work.

[dukeorock]

Nice job!

[Basically Bob]

Thanks!

[nutdog]

Originally Posted by Basically Bob

Oh ... forgot to mention, at 21.5 lbs, she's just about a pound lighter than my bass, cord and strap in it's case!

Just got back from a two gig night. I didn't weigh them but I think my bass in the case and my laptop bag with amp, mic, cables, wireless, etc. are both heavier than the cab.

Both events were outside and DI to PA. The second one was on a large concrete stage with a cover. Before I got hooked into the system I turned it on and was surprised at how loud and full it sounded. This box is amazing.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Basically Bob

One gig in the "room of doom" this past Wednesday with my new 88 and a Shuttle 3.0.. This combo had no problem delivering the goods, here. Two electric guitars, keys, drums and me on bass. Small boomy room with about 40 people. The mids, were very present and more defined than what I normally hear with an AE112. The bottom end was good, also. The Shuttle 3.0 10T combo doesn't keep up here, but the 3.0 / 88 mini rig certainly does and with it, I am able to control the boom more effectively.

Also rehearsed with another band last night. Much louder, than the venue above, with two electric guitars, one acoustic guitar, three vocals, keys and me. Vocals and acoustic guitar through the PA. I used my Markbass F1 with the 88. (no-show drummer)

The boys in the band were very impressed and so was I. Again, the mids were very present and defined; a little more so (I believe) than with the F1/Berg AE112 half-stack I normally use here.

The bottom end, however, seemed to be getting lost in the mix, without much punch and definition at higher volumes. I'm not sure if this has to do with the 88 or the head. I know that the F1 lows are centered at 40Hz and the Shuttle's is centered at 80Hz. At next week's rehearsal I will take both my Shuttle 6.2 and 3.0 to hear what the difference is.

I am rehearsing, tonight, in a church that seats about 150. We have solid PA support, here, and I will be using the 88 with my Shuttle 3.0. The acoustics at this church are awesome with virtually no ring back at all and I am always amazed at how good the 3.0 sounds here.

Saturday night's gig (in a bar) is a large private birthday party and expect it to be quite loud so the 88 is staying home. (will be using my Streamliner 600 with 2, AE112s).

... thumpin' the bass 5 days in a row this week.

Based on my experience with the Crazy8 (crazy88 should be here in about a week ), I will suggest FDeck's HPF/Pre. It increases both clarity and output, and is great for making boomy rooms more playable.

Mike Arnopol has been test-driving FDeck's new HPF/Pre III, which provides a fixed roll-off @ 12dB/octave @ 35Hz, AND a variable HPF @ 12dB/octave; the combination provides a 24dB/octave HPF with a variable knee.

As soon as it's available, I'm upgrading from series II to series III.

[kittyboy]

Bob, were you using any HPF?

[Mike Arnopol]

Hey all
I meant to post earlier. As far as when you get to higher volumes and the bass on the 88 is less defined---
As Jazzdog mentioned the HPF is a game changer especially with this speaker. Any speaker as it reaches it's maximum excursion will have enough quantity of bass but the quality will be less---meaning less low end definition. I had the same problem with my Thuinderchild 12. As I pushed it into volume levels that no single 12 should go it would be loud enough but the tautness of the low end would suffer. That's because these new speakers have MUCH longer excursions than previous speakers. Close to their max they will deliver the goods but be more diffuse in the low end.
While I feel that without a HPF the 88 is pretty remarkable as far as max SPL physics still apply. When you use the HPF the max volume increases by a lot and the at the volume level where it starts to get diffuse you'll notice a dramatic improvement. Funny thing is that my low B tightened up a lot when I used the HPF.

With the HPF you'll find that a lot of the low end extension that you thought you needed just muddied up the low end. Even the mighty Fearfuls are tuned in the high 40's. Meaning that any information that the speaker receives below the tuning frequency will be diffuse and less defined. Greenboy agrees that even the Fearfuls benefit from a good HPF. The 88's are tuned at about 50 hz. When talking to Duke LeJeaune he was saying that with the Thunderchild he wanted to catch the first harmonic of the B string (about 60 hz). So a lot of the low frequency information that we though we needed really just muddy the sound and the speaker is behaving in a non linear fasion by being pushed too much below the cabinet tuning frequency.

A good HPF cleans that stuff up.

[Basically Bob]

Originally Posted by kittyboy

Bob, were you using any HPF?

No, was just playing with the EQ.

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

With the HPF you'll find that a lot of the low end extension that you thought you needed just muddied up the low end. Even the mighty Fearfuls are tuned in the high 40's. Meaning that any information that the speaker receives below the tuning frequency will be diffuse and less defined. Greenboy agrees that even the Fearfuls benefit from a good HPF. The 88's are tuned at about 50 hz. When talking to Duke LeJeaune he was saying that with the Thunderchild he wanted to catch the first harmonic of the B string (about 60 hz). So a lot of the low frequency information that we though we needed really just muddy the sound and the speaker is behaving in a non linear fasion by being pushed too much below the cabinet tuning frequency.

A good HPF cleans that stuff up.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Mike. Now, how do I get one of Fdeck's HPF's on this side of the border ?

So, if I understand correctly, considering that my F1 low eq is centered at 40hz, that, in itself could be creating diffusion whereas my Shuttles, centered at 80 hz might be a better match for the 88 ... correct???

[Basically Bob]

I think I need to say, first, that I am absolutely thrilled with Mike's 88. What that little box delivers is absolutely amazing. I am so appreciative of the effort that he and all of the other independent builders put into this stuff and It gives me great delight in sticking a few dollars directly into their pockets to support their efforts.

The 88 exceeded all expectations at rehearsal, on Friday night, at church. The tone was great. I was using a 4-string fretless "PJ"with a Nordstrand NP4 at the neck and a Nordstrand Big Split at the bridge. My little Shuttle 3.0 was plugged into the PA with a pre-direct signal. With four vocals, one acoustic guitar and keys, there was absolutely no problem with the bottom end getting lost in the mix ... sounded good.

This morning, I swapped out the 3.0 with my Shuttle 6.2. What a great combination! The 6.2 took all that goodness and turned it up a couple of notches.

The lows were rich and deep with lots of definition. Mids and highs were clean and as smooth as silk. Yup, I think that this just might be tonal bliss, :-)

As much as I like my Bergantino AE112s, they will be at the back of the bus for this gig!

Settings on the 6.2 were: gain: 2:00, gain volume: 2:00, low: 12:00, mid and mid frequency both at 11:00 and high: 1:00. Master Volume was set at 2:00

[lo-freq]

Originally Posted by Basically Bob

...



... Now, how do I get one of Fdeck's HPF's on this side of the border ?

...

Here's his website: http://personalpages.tds.net/~fdeck/bass/hpfpre.htm

[chucko58]

Any Crazy 88 owners in the SF Bay area? I'm thinking of getting one and would like to try before I buy.

[nutdog]

Today was fun. I did my monthly work in Jefferson, GA and on the way back stopped at my friend's house in Atlanta. I bought the Berg AE210 from him, then sold it back to him, got the 88, he traded for an HD210 and I picked up a used GK MB210.

I took my Streamliner. He has a TC RH something or another and I thought we would use it but after we played with the STM he brought out a Fender Rumble amp and we messed with it. We had my 5 string squier active deluxe with Sadowsky pickups, his Jerzey Droid active 5 and his Fender P with flats.



Long story short: Tonally, the 88 is equal and/or better than either 210. The 88 would not give as much full low end than the others but it was close.

Where the 88 gave out quicker was on the 5 string notes below E at higher volumes. The HD210 could be louder and still produce those notes. Of course we could roll of the bass and the 88 would still play nice the berg could keep going louder without taking out low end. One thing about the 88-it sounds good right up until it sounds bad. There is no in between.

The HD and 88 were similar but different. We could EQ them both to get them to sound pretty close. Overall I would describe the HD as fuller and the 88 as richer.

The GK was sort of more rock and rollish. It was full but not as detailed even with the tweeter engaged. But still good. It will go lower at loud volume than the 88 but not necessarily louder sounding because it didn't have as much going on in the mids.

The 88 with the rumble and P were a great combination. The sound was full and there was a character that wasn't present in the berg or GK. It was enough to make my friend decide he wants the 88 to use that setup as his stage sound.

We were both very impressed. Some may have noticed that I'm selling the 88 and STM. This is not because I don't like either. I've just determined I don't need them and I could use the money elsewhere. This all started with the realization that I don't need much volume from my rig so why carry a bunch of stuff. The 88 would certainly fill my need but so does the cheaper combo. But the GK is definitely not as nice.

Here are some clips recorded on an H4. No editing. Just mp3s straight to sound cloud. Most are of the 88. I'm not totally sure which is which. Maybe you can tell. I do know the one with the terrible sound is the 88. It happened when he flipped a switch on the Jerzey. Beautifully replicated by the 88. I think the last 3 are the P with the rumble. The first two of the 3 are the 88 and the very last is the berg.

EDIT: First is definitely the 88 and second is HD.

http://soundcloud.com/olester3/sets/88-210-comparison

[Basically Bob]

Originally Posted by Basically Bob

One gig in the "room of doom" this past Wednesday with my new 88 and a Shuttle 3.0.. This combo had no problem delivering the goods, here. Two electric guitars, keys, drums and me on bass. Small boomy room with about 40 people. The mids, were very present and more defined than what I normally hear with an AE112. The bottom end was good, also. The Shuttle 3.0 10T combo doesn't keep up here, but the 3.0 / 88 mini rig certainly does and with it, I am able to control the boom more effectively.

Played this weekly gig again, last night, and used my Shuttle 6.2 rather than the Shuttle 3.0. I am pleased, indeed. The 6.2 was able to keep the boom under control and still deliver fuller, deeper tone, combined with the 88 than anything I have tried, here. I will be sticking with this combination, for sure!

Settings were: Gain and Gain Volume both @ 2:00, low @ 10:00, Mid @ 8:00, Mid F @ 8:00, High @ 12:00, Master volume @ 3:00.

I am just a little concerned about using a 600 watt amp with the 88. (new territory for me) My thinking is that if I keep the lows down at 12:00 or lower and the gain/gain V and master V no higher than 3:00 that I will be ok. If anyone thinks otherwise, I sure would appreciate hearing it.

[LennyJ]

Originally Posted by nutdog

Today was fun. I did my monthly work in Jefferson, GA and on the way back stopped at my friend's house in Atlanta. I bought the Berg AE210 from him, then sold it back to him, got the 88, he traded for an HD210 and I picked up a used GK MB210.

I took my Streamliner. He has a TC RH something or another and I thought we would use it but after we played with the STM he brought out a Fender Rumble amp and we messed with it. We had my 5 string squier active deluxe with Sadowsky pickups, his Jerzey Droid active 5 and his Fender P with flats.



Long story short: Tonally, the 88 is equal and/or better than either 210. The 88 would not give as much full low end than the others but it was close.

Where the 88 gave out quicker was on the 5 string notes below E at higher volumes. The HD210 could be louder and still produce those notes. Of course we could roll of the bass and the 88 would still play nice the berg could keep going louder without taking out low end. One thing about the 88-it sounds good right up until it sounds bad. There is no in between.

The HD and 88 were similar but different. We could EQ them both to get them to sound pretty close. Overall I would describe the HD as fuller and the 88 as richer.

The GK was sort of more rock and rollish. It was full but not as detailed even with the tweeter engaged. But still good. It will go lower at loud volume than the 88 but not necessarily louder sounding because it didn't have as much going on in the mids.

The 88 with the rumble and P were a great combination. The sound was full and there was a character that wasn't present in the berg or GK. It was enough to make my friend decide he wants the 88 to use that setup as his stage sound.

We were both very impressed. Some may have noticed that I'm selling the 88 and STM. This is not because I don't like either. I've just determined I don't need them and I could use the money elsewhere. This all started with the realization that I don't need much volume from my rig so why carry a bunch of stuff. The 88 would certainly fill my need but so does the cheaper combo. But the GK is definitely not as nice.

Here are some clips recorded on an H4. No editing. Just mp3s straight to sound cloud. Most are of the 88. I'm not totally sure which is which. Maybe you can tell. I do know the one with the terrible sound is the 88. It happened when he flipped a switch on the Jerzey. Beautifully replicated by the 88. I think the last 3 are the P with the rumble. The first two of the 3 are the 88 and the very last is the berg.

EDIT: First is definitely the 88 and second is HD.

http://soundcloud.com/olester3/sets/88-210-comparison

One thing I felt, is that in all the combinations we did - I feel the crazy88 sounded the best with my passive P bass.

But that is my opinion....... Thanks Nutdog for bringing them over.

[JxBass]

[dukeorock]

Nice stack!