Creative ways to be able to add another cab?

[mactac]

So, I've got an Epifani 410 UL2 that is 4 ohms. I'm running a Markbass LMII (and onther amps), which only goes down to 4 ohms safely (though I'm tempted to try it down to 2, the markbass people seem to almost seem to say that you can do it but they don't condone it...)

I really want to be able to add another cab for the times I just need a bit more, but the only way to do this in a 'normal' way is to sell my cab , and buy 2 8 ohm cabs.

But if I do that, then the 8 ohm 410 will be underpowered - most gigs I'm pushing a 4 ohm 410... the 8 ohm presumably won't be loud enough.


So, I'm sort of screwed if I do this.

Someone told me that I can rewire the Epifani cab. I presume with a regular 410, there are 4 x 16 ohm speakers in series, all i'd have to do it put 2 + 2 in parallel, to make it 8 ohms, right? Though the tweeter probably messes this up a bit, especially since there is a crossover in there. Has anyone done this?

Any other ideas? I guess I could always get a cheap power amp & power my second cab from that.

Any other creative ideas?

[rpsands]

4/16, or 2/8. That's what you have as options.

Your best bet would be to just stick with your cab. A UL410 hit by 500 watts should be loud enough for anything reasonable.

Think very seriously about whether you really need more volume. Most of the time this is just GAS talking

[mactac]

Originally Posted by rpsands

4/16, or 2/8. That's what you have as options.

Your best bet would be to just stick with your cab. A UL410 hit by 500 watts should be loud enough for anything reasonable.

Think very seriously about whether you really need more volume. Most of the time this is just GAS talking

I play reggae, and have the lows way up, which eats up power like crazy.

I definitely need to move more air, and would like to add another cab from when it's needed.

I don't need a LOT more volume, but my rig is definitely being pushed HARD, and essentially has no headroom.

I also find that when pushed really hard, it doesn't sound as good - I can head the speakers straining, and the amp starts to get unfocused. Adding another cab will take the stress off the rig & likely sound much better.

This is really what it is for me, just the sound quality (AT volume) rather than the volume itself.

[audiomitch]

You could build a series cable for two 4 ohm cabs. That will give you more speaker area, but at 8 ohms.

[mactac]

Originally Posted by audiomitch

You could build a series cable for two 4 ohm cabs. That will give you more speaker area, but at 8 ohms.

Definitely a creative idea - aren't the pass-through jacks on cabinets wired in series ?

So, the question is - how would this compare to what I've got now. Without thinking about it too far - double speaker area = 2x air pressure, but halving the wattage doesn't halve the volume, so it should be a net result of more volume, right?

Definitely an interesting concept.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by mactac

But if I do that, then the 8 ohm 410 will be underpowered -

Why, pray tell?

[ninepoundjammer]

Originally Posted by mactac

Definitely a creative idea - aren't the pass-through jacks on cabinets wired in series ?

No, they're typically parallel.

Are you looking to hear yourself better or carry a room better (do you usually have house support?). You might actually hear yourself better with 2 4x10's stacked, even though they're only running at 8ohms. But then, you might hear yourself even better if you only hook up the top cab and run it at 4 ohms.

If you really need lots of volume, maybe you're ultimately going to need an amp that can handle 2 ohms or go stereo/bridged depending on the gig.

[mactac]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Why, pray tell?

Because the amp puts out less power at 8 ohms than it does at 4.

Solid state amps put out more power when powering cabs with less impedance. Tube amps don't.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by mactac

Definitely a creative idea - aren't the pass-through jacks on cabinets wired in series ?

No, not generally, unless someone has rewired them.

Some prefer a series box, some make a special cable for it. I prefer the former, less chance of an accident . Unless You're using Speakons, easier connections and easier to mark appropriately.

BTW, UNDERPOWERING sould be included on the automatic censoring system that replaces naughties with ***** . IMHO anyway.

Regards
Sam

[mactac]

Originally Posted by ninepoundjammer

No, they're typically parallel.

Are you looking to hear yourself better or carry a room better (do you usually have house support?). You might actually hear yourself better with 2 4x10's stacked, even though they're only running at 8ohms. But then, you might hear yourself even better if you only hook up the top cab and run it at 4 ohms.

If you really need lots of volume, maybe you're ultimately going to need an amp that can handle 2 ohms or go stereo/bridged depending on the gig.

I (mostly) need to carry the room better. I rarely play shows that have adequate PA support for our style of music (roots reggae). I do actually prop my cab up to hear myself better, but it doesn't help with the room (actually it probably hurts because the cab no longer couples with the floor).

Having said that, I would like more stage-filling ability - this is the only band I've ever been in where everyone else is asking me to turn up! It's plenty loud right beside the amp, but REALLY drops off about 8 feet away.

...and having said all of that, I really don't like what happens to the sound when it's really working hard - it definitely changes for the worse (and I don't mean it's clipping)

[rpsands]

I would recommend you get a cabinet more suitable for cranking bass. 4x10s are rarely terribly well suited for this, as the woofers sensitive enough for loud rock styles are not as capable down low.

Buy two of those Avatar 15/6 cabs and sell your Epifani 4x10. That's how I'd roll.

Another consideration: Look into an EQ pedal. Not all reggae tones require lots of sub bass. Lots of guys use boosts at 150-ish hz to get the thumpy reggae sound, and at that frequency your 4x10 should be able to get insanely loud.

Cranking the bass knob on something like the Markbass head chews up a lot of power and compresses the heck out of it too, which adjusts your sound as it gets louder.

[lbwdog]

Unless you're playing crazy loud, you'll have enough power with 8 Ohm cabs for any gig. I use nothing but 8 Ohms (sometimes one, sometimes two) even at large outdoor fests and arenas.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by mactac

Because the amp puts out less power at 8 ohms than it does at 4.

Solid state amps put out more power when powering cabs with less impedance. Tube amps don't.

In theory, yes, but in the case of MI amps, the truth is usually quite a bit different. Especially on the low end of the frequency spectrum.

Regards
Sam

[mactac]

Originally Posted by lbwdog

Unless you're playing crazy loud, you'll have enough power with 8 Ohm cabs for any gig. I use nothing but 8 Ohms (sometimes one, sometimes two) even at large outdoor fests and arenas.

I think you might have missed my original post at the top - my *4 ohm* cab isn't delivering enough..

[mactac]

Originally Posted by rpsands

I would recommend you get a cabinet more suitable for cranking bass. 4x10s are rarely terribly well suited for this, as the woofers sensitive enough for loud rock styles are not as capable down low.

Buy two of those Avatar 15/6 cabs and sell your Epifani 4x10. That's how I'd roll.

Another consideration: Look into an EQ pedal. Not all reggae tones require lots of sub bass. Lots of guys use boosts at 150-ish hz to get the thumpy reggae sound, and at that frequency your 4x10 should be able to get insanely loud.

Cranking the bass knob on something like the Markbass head chews up a lot of power and compresses the heck out of it too, which adjusts your sound as it gets louder.

hmmm, that's not a bad idea. I just sent dave at avatar an email asking if he ships to canada.

I know what you're sating about the bass compressing, it definitely is compressing like crazy, plus it sounds like I'm getting a resonance out of the epifani that ends up putting out a vacuum cleaner sound.

Really, I think the rig is just working too hard all the way around.

[mactac]

a question - do you think that A SINGLE avatar 15/6 would be better/louder/not have to work as hard as my 410ul2?

[rpsands]

If it were 4 ohms and you are boosting lots of <100hz frequencies right now, probably. Otherwise, no.

The likely issue with the working hard is your amp compressing from trying to put out lots of <100hz stuff into a cabinet that doesn't have it (probably -3db by 60hz -10db by 50hz instead of -3d by 45hz, -10 by 35). So it's two things; one you don't have enough watts, two, you've got a cabinet that isn't as sensitive down low as you need. Combination of that probably.

It's possible that something like a Thumpinator pedal in the effects loop might do the trick too but I can't say for sure.

Can you post your EQ settings?

[mactac]

Eq is:

low - 70%
low-mid 40%
hi-mid 0%
high - 0%

VLF - 30-40%
VLE - 0%


Yes, crazy settings, I know !

[babebambi]

time to consider a P.A. for the band
if not, look into powered sub for the bass

[mactac]

Originally Posted by babebambi

time to consider a P.A. for the band
if not, look into powered sub for the bass

No, a PA big enough would be much too expensive. Every venue we play has a PA, it's not sufficient for Roots Reggae bass.