Crown 1000xls: LPF/HPF opinions/advice
I'm new to SS and power amp setups. I also don't totally understand specs and how they relate to what comes out of the speakers.
Here's what I'm trying to run:
Drop B passive fender jazz
Verellen meatsmoke rack pre
Crown 1000xls running stereo
2 ampeg SVT 610HLF cabs. 4 ohms each
If this was your rig, how would you set the filters? Right now it's in stereo bypass mode. The sound lacks clarity. I'd love to have a bit more punch and a bit less oomph.
Also could I run the two 610 cabs on amp 1 at 2ohms and run side two with a 4 ohm 215 as a sub?
Look forward to trying your suggestions!
I'm going to suggest you try to run the HPF at 50 hz. to (possibly) give you less boominess down low, but that would negate using the 215 as a sub - cuz max low at 50 hz. ain't gonna cut it. 215 doesn't make a proper or good sub anyway.
If you're lacking clarity throughout the range, it really has nothing to do with the filters. The Ampeg's might be wanting more watts than the amp is able to give. That may be due to the signal the Crown wants for full power. 1.4v. If your pre is putting out less, you aren't getting the cleanest headroom and volume possible. It all lies in the pre output and EQ. Just my 2 cents.
You're not going to like this but for clarity you need to ditch those cabs brother. 12x10 is only good for doom. Adding 15's is only good for more of the same with even less clarity.
The only component I'm familiar with is the XLS1000. Given the cab specs, I'd go with an enclosure per side and run the HPF @ 50 hz. Give it a go and get back to us.
I'd forgo the sub for now and run a 610 off each channel. If that ain't loud enough, louder isn't the answer.
If you use ANY dirt, overdrive, distortion type effects, I'd set the LPF between 4 and 5 khz and dial the tweeter controls on the cabs in to taste.
50hz is a good starting point for the HPF. You can experiment with lower, but it'd likely just make the speakers struggle and muddy up the mix. Higher and you might lose some heft in your low B.
As far as "punch", the 610hlf isn't known for being very punchy straight away but it's in there if you want it. Try adding a little on the eq about an octave above what you think you want. Like somewhere 80-300hz instead of very deep bass.
In run a 412 cab 4ohm bridged set up. I normally leave it turned off. But that's just me.
If this is for one of those "stoner/doom" things, it seems just more is moar. Might get away with running both there but keep them setup close together and toe them in towards each other a little bit. Setting one up on either side of the stage will just make a mess of things and get your notes lost in a sea of mud. Will also drown out/cause problems with other instruments as well.
Thanks guys. A bit more info:
This is for a doom type of thing, although a bit more "prog" doom if that makes sense.
I'm using an xotic bass pre/boost at all times and a swollen pickle for smooth fuzz occasionally. Also have a Moore LoFi in the mix for synthy stuff.
Guitarist is playing a 200w orange full stack. The drummer is very loud and his kick comes up to my hip. I'm 6' tall.
The 610's are stacked on their side.
I have the pre dialed back a bit. There's still more volume available if needed. I'm fairly certain the pre puts out enough voltage to the amp I will certainly get in touch with the builder for that spec.
The 215's if utilized would be 2 fearful single 15 subs @8ohms each. Have not decided to go that way yet, but I already have the speakers from a 1515/66/1 that I'm A/Bing with this rig. I like that cab too but it might be too technically advanced for me. Still trying to dial in the sweet spot.
Ditching the cabs isn't necessary or an option. I'm close to the sound I want, just looking for a bit more tightness from the 10's.
Thanks for the helpful advice. I'll post results once I fiddle with the settings. Feel free to hit me with other ideas.
Those fEARfuls will make proper subs. Could try running an active crossover at 100hz. Let them play the bottom and the 610's get all the punch/tone.
Do you know what beaming is?
How about phasing?
Your 8x3 stack beams chronically. Will suggested toe in crossfiring to get the sound at least a little more consistent across the venue.
Adding crossed over subs gets around the phasing but makes 6x10's redundant except for the visual factor.
You have a 1515/66 but it's not dialing in for you? You got an awesome setup in that preamp and poweramp but it might just need another EQ to get you happy.
I would take a step back and try to get the sound I want from a single 610hlf. Once it's right, add the second cab and compare. Make certain the pairing of the cabs is a non-issue. I don't know the Meatsmoke pre, but have found that getting the EQ right in the lower bands is not so simple. The graphic EQ on my Mesa M9 and the five band semi-parametric of the ART tube channel I've used (with a Crest CA6) make it more doable.
I'm a little confused about the 1515/66 fEARful issues. Have you A/B'd that cab with the 1210s?
I was having issues while using the 1515/66 as a standalone with the current amp setup. I got the problem ironed out but just can't seem to get it right so I tried the 612's running stereo and got much closer to what I was looking for. Another way to describe what I'm hearing: very boomy. Not enough mid, but enough to think I could dial in a nice mix by utilizing the LPF on cab one and the HPF on cab two. Alternately, switch to one 612 atop 2 fearful 15's and send the lows to the 15s and the mids/highs to the 612 as noted above. The limiting factor here is that I'm new to these types of amps and am LPF/HPF illiterate.
Those 6 12's atop the two subs would be doing the work of 1 high performance 6" mid driver but with crappy dispersion that means only a few of your audience get to hear the tone.
Grab a parametric EQ for less than $200, see what that does with your fearful monster before junking it.
If the tone you are after is tied up in distorting the 12's you could get another little amp and build a 1x12 to mic up and play out of your fearful at skull crushing volume.
just to be clear, I'm running the amp stereo. 500 or so watts per side into 2 610 cabs now.
If I were to run stereo into
2-15" fearful subs
Each side of the equation running 4 ohms
Could I then tune one side of the amp to run higher frequencies into the 610 cab and the other side to send low frequencies into the subs? And to be fair, the audience for this at best would be limited to >200 or so people crammed into a small venue so they'll have no choice but to hear all of it.
Still have to say I would focus on getting the tone right through one 610 and then add the other. Your "quasi-biamp" scheme is a recipe for a pretty uncontrollable system that would be hard to adjust—looks like you have found that out. From what I see on the Verellen pages, the preamp end of the Meatsmoke amp is not what I would call feature rich. I think you need more bands of EQ all in one place rather than spreading it between bass, pedals, preamp AND two power amp channels. The idea of then mixing a fEARful into that—well as a fEARful user I find it daunting.
Perhaps you don't know, by far the biggest part of the amp power for any bass tone goes to the lows and lowest mids.
If you want to take a 610 to do the work of a 6, sure it will work. Perhaps I could interest you in a 210 meet you halfway? Be sure to stand it vertically.
Thinking everyone will "hear all of it" because it is freaky loud is mistaken. The side by side driver arrangement is hard to hear unless you're right in line with it. Over the decades of rock guitar, it has always been hard for guitarists to hear the tone of 4x12, simple, turn up, and up and up, eventually gets to be fun shaking your bones with guitar....everything is supersized, fun times.
I'm not here to persuade you to play quieter, only trying to help get you your tone out loud and clear.
Jim is dead right. Biamping your 610 with subs is unlikely to change a whole lot for the better, most of the tone resides in the frequencies of the mids. You would clean up some low mid distortion if you're currently pushing the 610's hard, might be a good thing or a bad thing for you.
Do get some more EQ before giving up on the fearful. You need it whatever way you run.
I'll try to borrow a decent EQ for the rig. I'm not giving up on the fearful by any stretch. I just happened upon these other cabs and had better luck dialing them in tone wise. Not perfect by any means. The fearful was giving me all sorts of flappy stuff as you may have seen in another thread. I got that sorted out with a cable that was properly configured for the amp to run bridged. Sounded better but maybe the EQ is a good idea. Thanks. Maybe I'll run 12x10's on one side and the fearful on the other.
These are the two cab setups with the same amp.
Attachment 369071Attachment 369072
Using the amp's hpf could help sort part of your flappy fearful problem.
It's hard to describe tone on the internet but you asked also for tighter. Tight usually means rolled off deep lows. Bring up the amp hpf until it sounds too tight altogether and back down. If that helps you can be pretty confident some EQ will finish the job.
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