Crown XLS power amp- Eden navigator Pre- Amp. Power amp clipping?

Thejamesjordan · #1 09-02-2011, 09:19 PM

Hey Guys,

I have a crown XLS 2000 watt power amp, an Eden Navigator pre- amp, and a Schecter active 5 string bass. I recently activated the enhanced gain functionality on the Eden pre- amp, and now occasionally after playing for a while the power amp clips, and mutes out for about 5 seconds.

Any ideas what the issue could be?

Zooberwerx · #2 09-03-2011, 12:19 AM

Do you mean the enhance or turbo boost? Either way, it sounds as if you're signal is on the hot side. Where do you have the power amp attenuators set?

Riis

ErnieD · #3 09-03-2011, 12:23 AM

I used my Coredrive XLS1500 w/BBE pre, bridged @ 8 ohms into a single 8 ohm UL410 at a outdoor gig this past spring. No PA support for me ever plus our keysplayer could not make this gig, so I was really pushing some lows and volume to keep up with guiturd. My Crown shut down twice at that gig. I assumed it was my passive, JoBo 5er that just couldn't hang with the volume I was trying to attain and I had some knobs almost totally cranked on pre and amp.

Recently at a airplane hanger sized bar, I used the same rig but this time with my active, modded MTD KZ5er. The sound/volume was awesome loud, no clip, no issues. I've used this rig with 1-2 UL410's before, always sounds huge at other venues. Maybe there was power issue at that outdoor gazebo stage, not sure, as its' only occured that one time.

THis is my first power amp/preamp rig ever. I'm trying this first time since the light weight of this 2 space Crown power amp makes it easy to move around. Maybe vail_bass is right.

Never considered that the class D amp may not be up to par with the "old irons" many use. Hope to hear more on this in this thread, I'd like to see where this goes.

Thejamesjordan · #4 09-03-2011, 01:39 AM

Ernie, Zooberwerx, and vail_bass

Thank you for the responses. Power amp/ pre- amp setup is definitely the way I will go forever. I love the sound. I am fairly light on the pre- amp settings on the bass. I am also at 12'o clock on the pre-amp for the most part.

Bottom line, I need this thing to sound awesome (which it does), and not cut out when I'm hitting the low D on a muse song at a gig.

I know the solution is to dial back the bass pre- settings, but I need the bass to still have a deliverable tone.

Any thoughts on how to do that?

tom-g · #5 09-03-2011, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thejamesjordan

Hey Guys,

I have a crown XLS 2000 watt power amp, an Eden Navigator pre- amp, and a Schecter active 5 string bass. I recently activated the enhanced gain functionality on the Eden pre- amp, and now occasionally after playing for a while the power amp clips, and mutes out for about 5 seconds.

Any ideas what the issue could be?

You already answered your own question. You're turned up too loud.

tom-g · #6 09-03-2011, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErnieD

Never considered that the class D amp may not be up to par with the "old irons" many use. Hope to hear more on this in this thread, I'd like to see where this goes.

Been using "old irons" for 30 years. Even built one myself. I am now a happy owner of a Crown XLS 1000. They are on par and on top of that are light and some of them have features packed into them that would get expensive fast with "old irons".

tom-g · #7 09-03-2011, 02:44 AM

How were you using the amp? Was it in bridge mode? If so, were you using the correct speaker connection for bridge mode?

Bassmec · #8 09-03-2011, 02:53 AM

As always the proof of the pudding is in the eating, My switch mode power amp did more than cut out for a bit the other week it blew the magic smoke and died completely.
I have replaced it with a Crown Lead sled MA3600VZ now I don't see any clip lights at all.

tom-g · #9 09-03-2011, 03:02 AM

That's no proof. That is but one incident. And by the way there are very many "old irons" which blew the magic smoke and there are still going to be many more.

anonymous101511 · #10 09-03-2011, 08:05 AM

I would say that it has nothing to do with the signal going in, exactly. It's all about what you are asking the amp to do. If you are asking it to put out full power for a period of time, the higher quality amp will almost always perform more reliably. Have a look at what sound companies use, they need reliable amps. The majority of companies I've used seem to have a lot of of Crest Audio in their racks, and that's why I went with them for my new rig. You won't see any inexpensive class D amps, usually lots of heavy old school power.

tom-g · #11 09-03-2011, 08:35 AM

Where do you get your info from ? Just in case you haven't taken notice, Crest is using that cheap class D technology quite successfully, just like Crown. And just in case you have not realized it, Crown is a very renowned company in the pro sound business - just like Crest, QSC, and many others.

anonymous101511 · #12 09-03-2011, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom-g

Where do you get your info from ? Just in case you haven't taken notice, Crest is using that cheap class D technology quite successfully, just like Crown. And just in case you have not realized it, Crown is a very renowned company in the pro sound business - just like Crest, QSC, and many others.

I get my info from personal experience of 37 straight years of world tours, you can have your own opinion, too. I've used Crown amps since the D-150A was new, FYI.

You won't see any of the cheap ones in a pro sound rack.
Clair Bros., MSI, etc. no way!

Bassmec · #13 09-03-2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom-g

Where do you get your info from ? Just in case you haven't taken notice, Crest is using that cheap class D technology quite successfully, just like Crown. And just in case you have not realized it, Crown is a very renowned company in the pro sound business - just like Crest, QSC, and many others.

Yup! these huge reputations were built up over many years with amps like Crown Macro Tech's, Crest 12's and QSC MX3000's

Zooberwerx · #14 09-03-2011, 10:19 AM

Actually, it appears as if the Crown XLS is doing exactly what it's suposed to do when facing a sustained "threat" from your signal source, specifically the Eden Nav. (I have one, too...nice pre, eh?). The power amp detects that a threshold has been surpassed with the clip indication and mutes / shuts down until either re-set, thermal status falls back within safe operating conditions, or timer criteria has been met. A few suggestions:

*Eliminate the stupid stuff. Double check the cables, connections, etc. Re-read the manuals although real men don't no steenkin' manuals.

*Get over this "full power" kick...it doesn't exist. What you should be aiming for is an optimal relationship of response amongst your pre, Crown, and enclosure. If you've got your amp attenuators dimed, think again. You may need to roll-off a few dB's to prevent clipping at near-normal pre settings. Note: if left untouched, I can clip one of my power amps with the Nav's volume set at 3-4. You can experiment by disconnecting the speaker cab (most modern power amps have a speaker disconnect safeguard) and manipulating both the Navigator and Crown levels to establish a reasonable balance. You should be able to run your pre's volume at about 50% / 12:00 (whatever that is!) with a corresponding strong signal indication on the Crown and no clipping. We're also at an advantage as the Navigator has LED output bargraph for addt'l guidance.

*Once you've done this and you're still not loud enough, you may want to consider adding a second speaker enclosure.

Riis

tom-g · #15 09-03-2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vail_bass

I get my info from personal experience of 37 straight years of world tours, you can have your own opinion, too. I've used Crown amps since the D-150A was new, FYI.

You won't see any of the cheap ones in a pro sound rack.
Clair Bros., MSI, etc. no way!

Well, whatever you seem to know about amps after 37 years remains your opinion. One thing is for certain, it sure is not going to help the OP putting down the amp he's using. And one other thing which you seem to have not relaized in those 37 years of aquired wisdom - price is not a measure of quality.

Why a sound company is using some amp, I could care less. It's not a measure of realibilty or performance - and as said before neither is price.

tom-g · #16 09-03-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thejamesjordan

Ernie, Zooberwerx, and vail_bass

Thank you for the responses. Power amp/ pre- amp setup is definitely the way I will go forever. I love the sound. I am fairly light on the pre- amp settings on the bass. I am also at 12'o clock on the pre-amp for the most part.

Bottom line, I need this thing to sound awesome (which it does), and not cut out when I'm hitting the low D on a muse song at a gig.

I know the solution is to dial back the bass pre- settings, but I need the bass to still have a deliverable tone.

Any thoughts on how to do that?

What also important is how speakers have you hooked up? What are their impendances? How do you have them hooked up - is the amp bridged? If it is in bridged mode are you using the correct cable if using Speakons?

Bob Lee (QSC) · #17 09-03-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Yup! these huge reputations were built up over many years with amps like Crown Macro Tech's, Crest 12's and QSC MX3000's

I don't think there was a "Crest 12."

Zooberwerx · #18 09-03-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC)

I don't think there was a "Crest 12."

There is / was a Crest CA-12:

Crest Audio

Riis

Bob Lee (QSC) · #19 09-03-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

There is / was a Crest CA-12:

Crest Audio

Riis

For pro sound applicatiions the Crest Professional Series (8001, 7001, 9001, et al) was a more apt comparison with the MacroTech than any particular CA model. The CA series was targeted more at semi-pro use (as was the QSC MX3000a).

anonymous101511 · #20 09-03-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom-g

Well, whatever you seem to know about amps after 37 years remains your opinion. One thing is for certain, it sure is not going to help the OP putting down the amp he's using. And one other thing which you seem to have not relaized in those 37 years of aquired wisdom - price is not a measure of quality.

Why a sound company is using some amp, I could care less. It's not a measure of realibilty or performance - and as said before neither is price.

cheap> referring to the quality, not specifically the price.
You "could care less" about what pros use means you are ignoring information and speaking purely emotionally. Fine, but you have no credibility that way.
The OP could buy a great used power amp for the price of a cheap new one, to be more specific. Now there's some very helpful information. Need a great source for awesome used gear? check out 'Jammin' Jersey music store online. I have no affiliation but I do buy there.

They have Crest, Ashly, QSC, Crown, EV and AB Systems. Just bought my little Crest there for $200 !!