D.I. vs Amp

finfrocka · #1 09-27-2011, 10:00 PM

Hey guys, I've noticed that when I am recording straight into my PC or when I am playing through headphones my bass sounds totally different. I love the sound through my headphones or my direct recording from my bass. But through my amp (fender rumble 100) I don't get the same sound. The fender amp is really good for achieving a marcus miller like tone for slap. But my direct input sounds a lot similar to the tone that victor wooten has. I guess you could say it cuts the mids but even when I boost the mids on the amp it doesn't achieve the sound I get with the d.i.

Is this just the characteristics of my amp or am I doing something wrong here? lol

I should also add that I'm playing a schecter elite 4.

bongomania · #2 09-27-2011, 10:38 PM

Yeah, the amp and its speaker are inherently going to shape your tone completely differently than your DI, mixer, headphones, etc. There are ways of altering a clean DI channel to sound more like your amp and speaker, but there is no way to make your amp sound like the DI channel.

Kwesi · #3 09-27-2011, 10:40 PM

Most amps and cabs are designed to color the sound in a way that the designer believes sounds good. DIs are designed to be as clean as possible (with all the EQ controls set flat) so having one go straight into your computer gives a much more honest representation of your bass tone.

Having owned a Fender Rumble combo I can tell you that they are terribly scooped. Not my kind of sound at all. There are very few rigs you could put together that would be as clean as a DI but later on you'll probably want something that will color that sound in a way that you like.

finfrocka · #4 09-27-2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Most amps and cabs are designed to color the sound in a way that the designer believes sounds good. DIs are designed to be as clean as possible (with all the EQ controls set flat) so having one go straight into your computer gives a much more honest representation of your bass tone.

Having owned a Fender Rumble combo I can tell you that they are terribly scooped. Not my kind of sound at all. There are very few rigs you could put together that would be as clean as a DI but later on you'll probably want something that will color that sound in a way that you like.

That was what I pretty much figured, I just wanted a little confirmation. Any suggestions on what I should start saving my money for then? lol

stingraysvt · #5 09-27-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finfrocka

That was what I pretty much figured, I just wanted a little confirmation. Any suggestions on what I should start saving my money for then? lol

$600

$300 for nice DI

$300 for nice condenser mic to go along with

Mix the two signals together for the million dollar tone

My current mic/DI setup is

DI's: Ampeg SVT DI, Radial JDV, Radial Pro (passive), Countryman type 85

Mic's: Shure KSM 27, Beta 52

I don't use them all at once, just have options to play with...

finfrocka · #6 09-27-2011, 11:18 PM

I don't do much gigging, but I do a quite a bit of jamming. I really am just very picky. For example, the stuff in my P.C. isn't necesarry for what I use it for but I had to build the perfect PC. Same situation for my bass gear, except if I actually found some people I wanted to play with regularly, I would want to be able to rely on an amp.

Also, I'm a little confused about your DI and Mic thing your talking about. I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to amps and mics.

Kwesi · #7 09-28-2011, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stingraysvt

$600

$300 for nice DI

$300 for nice condenser mic to go along with

Mix the two signals together for the million dollar tone

My current mic/DI setup is

DI's: Ampeg SVT DI, Radial JDV, Radial Pro (passive), Countryman type 85

Mic's: Shure KSM 27, Beta 52

I don't use them all at once, just have options to play with...

Methinks that's a bit excessive for a guy who just has a combo at the moment

. Frinfrocka, I think you'd dig any of the Markbass combos. Not cheap, but they sound good and with the 210 you could handle small to medium sized gigs/jams pretty easily.

bongomania · #8 09-28-2011, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finfrocka

I'm a little confused about your DI and Mic thing your talking about. I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to amps and mics.

What he was describing was where you use two mixer channels in the PA or studio; one channel gets the DI straight from your bass, and the other channel gets the mic, which is pointed at your amp's speaker. This is a common studio trick for a dialing in a certain tone.

However, it is completely unrelated to what you were asking about. It would not in any way help get the DI-like sound from your amp, which is what I think you wanted.

If you really really want to pursue a tone from your amp that sounds like the DI signal, you'll need an amp and speaker cab that was designed for a "hi fi" sound. $$$$$

anonymous101511 · #9 09-28-2011, 01:22 AM

You can get any number of powered PA style cabinets for less than a decent bass amp. Go to the music store with your bass (if you need that exact bass) and plug into the amp on the back of the speaker. Sam Ash would have Samson gear, try a single 15" powered PA cab, some even have a mixer/ pre- amp built in so you don't need a separate pre- amp. You can plug straight in with a guitar cable. This will sound more 'like your bass' than just about any amp out there. The extension of that approach is to have a mixer/ power amp/ PA speaker configuration. I've done this is varying ways since the 70's.

Son of Bovril · #10 09-28-2011, 02:27 AM

I would suggest looking for a DI that can drive a poweramp (something like an Avalon U5) but won't color your sound, then get a PA style poweramp (which also shouldn't color your sound), there are many to choose from at different power ratings, prices and weights. Then find a speaker that is designed to be "flat response" something full range like one of the acme or fEARful designs

Thats probably the closest you will get to having your DI sound from your rig, but as Bongo said, you will probably get there and then realize that for live sound you prefer something a little more colored so maybe add an eq pedal or rack unit to the rig and you'd be set to go!

Ps. Unfortunately chasing that clean sound doesn't really come at a budget level so most of the stuff is gonna be professional level gear at a higher price

Oobly · #11 09-28-2011, 02:40 AM

Surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, but...

If your amp has a traditional Fender style EQ, "flat" will be treble on 2 (out of 10), mid on 10 (full), bass on 2. It is only possible to REDUCE mids on that setup, you can't actually boost them. The EQ can only boost treble and bass.

So you may just be running the EQ "scooped" all the time, thinking it is set flat (all knobs at 12 o'clock).

That said, if you like the tone of your bass direct, then a preamp/DI , PA style power amp and "clean" full range cab like an Avatar TB153 or a fEARful or a 3way PA cab may be what you are after.

Kwesi · #12 09-28-2011, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oobly

Surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, but...

If your amp has a traditional Fender style EQ, "flat" will be treble on 2 (out of 10), mid on 10 (full), bass on 2. It is only possible to REDUCE mids on that setup, you can't actually boost them. The EQ can only boost treble and bass.

So you may just be running the EQ "scooped" all the time, thinking it is set flat (all knobs at 12 o'clock).

According to the amp's manual everything set at 12 o'clock should be "flat".

bassbum311 · #13 09-28-2011, 03:23 AM

This is a really good question!!! This is my first post by the way im new here

I've often run a mic'd signal and a D.I at the same time you get the clarity and the color both recording and live.

I've always thought that using an amp gets you a better sound. I use an old SVT and mic it with a shure beta 52, and run that into an mbox to record, and when I use that amp live. The sound that comes out is always great!!! What I have come to notice though is that if you have a good sound guy live just run D.I. and he will eq you out in the front HOPEfully to your liking. D.I. is very transparent so if your bass doesn't sound great especially if its a bad sounding passive bass you may have a problem or two. (although a lot of di's have eq's now like the sansamp.) I prefer to have a simple D.I. with a good sounding bass. I recorded a video tonight that i did just with a D.I. check it out if your curious. It was for a bass audition Seaven Seas of Rhye bass cover by Alex Pierce! - YouTube

This is my first post on talkbass I hope to make some new friends!

rkhanso · #14 09-28-2011, 04:05 AM

There can be huge differences in the speakers you're using to listen to the sound with.

Using high quality monitors vs. cheap headphones will not give you the same sound (I'm not saying you are using cheap headphones, this is an example)

Yes, your source can play a huge difference, but so can your monitor speakers (or headphones, as the case may be).

Here's an web page with some info - maybe not directly related, but informative:
HeadWize - Article: The Art of Monitoring and Mixing With Headphones (A HeadWize Headphone Guide)

Son of Bovril · #15 09-28-2011, 04:12 AM

The rumble does not use a fender tone stack as far as I know

finfrocka · #16 09-28-2011, 10:49 AM

Hey guys, thanks for all the responses, this was really helpful. I definitely don't want to have that D.I. sound all the time, I should have said that. Coloring my tone is definitely something I would want in addition to getting that D.I. sound when the situation calls for it. I'm going to have to check out these fEARful cabs.

JimmyM · #17 09-28-2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwesi

According to the amp's manual everything set at 12 o'clock should be "flat".

I wish amp and preamp makers would stop saying that. The vast majority of them aren't flat with knobs at noon.

CapnSev · #18 09-28-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vail_bass

You can get any number of powered PA style cabinets for less than a decent bass amp. Go to the music store with your bass (if you need that exact bass) and plug into the amp on the back of the speaker. Sam Ash would have Samson gear, try a single 15" powered PA cab, some even have a mixer/ pre- amp built in so you don't need a separate pre- amp. You can plug straight in with a guitar cable. This will sound more 'like your bass' than just about any amp out there. The extension of that approach is to have a mixer/ power amp/ PA speaker configuration. I've done this is varying ways since the 70's.

This would be a cheap and great option for you if you like your DI tone that much.

Roadkill · #19 09-28-2011, 11:13 AM

Get IEM's and go direct into the board via a DI. That's what I do:
Naked (no amp) Bassist's Club? - TalkBass Forums

treekiller · #20 09-28-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Having owned a Fender Rumble combo I can tell you that they are terribly scooped. Not my kind of sound at all. There are very few rigs you could put together that would be as clean as a DI but later on you'll probably want something that will color that sound in a way that you like.

I have recorded using the pre-out to the board on my 2-10" Rumble, while it's not perfect you can dial back in the low mids if that's what you want.