Darn, I need more power !!!

Tumeni Notes · #1 06-23-2010, 06:38 AM

Hello fellow TBer's.

I need your opinion on another bass cabinet setup.

I had been looking for a great bass system that is modular and thus, easy for me to transport and lightweight. I ended up getting (2) AE112 and a RH450 amp head. The bass setup sounds fantastic and I was extremely pleased.

However, when I used them on our first band practice, I was quickly drowned out and I could not hear my playing at all. I know that I could have asked the guitarist to turn down; but then that would end up being a continual process at every practice. Also, I was concerned that I might have problem hearing myself on stage with the cabinets. So, it looks like a 300 watt system is simply not enough power for me in my band.

Thus, I am re-evaluating my entire thought process and am now leaning toward getting a 4X10 or 4X12 cabinet and amp system with at least 700 watts. I am now beginning the process of researching amps and cabinets and would like your input on a great sounding system. I like a lot of punch, mid's, and cutting through the mix.

Separately, I will probably be putting my current system up for sale soon so send me a tell if you would like to be notified when I do.

Thanks for advance for your comments and suggestions.

tom once dead · #2 06-23-2010, 06:40 AM

Just go for more speakers. Get a 410 and a 210 or something like that.

chiplexic · #3 06-23-2010, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumeni Notes

So, it looks like a 300 watt system is simply not enough power for me in my band.

Why do you say 300 watts? Those 2 Ae112's are running at 4 ohms together. So you have the full 450 watts from that TC head.
Man...you guys practice loud.

I'd say a 4x10 is in order. But your amp may be fine. Try just the cab first.

Tumeni Notes · #4 06-23-2010, 06:49 AM

I was thinking about that. However, the AE112 cabinets are 8 ohms; thus, with the current configuration, my system is 4 ohms. Therefore, when I add more speakers, my ohm rating will decrease. Also, I will probably need a more powerful amp than the RH450.

Chiplexic, I guess we do practice loud. Our practice room is about 18X20. When I play by myself, I thought I can get really loud. The guitarist plays through a Marshall half-stack and he actually does not sound too loud. However, when we all play together, I am immediately drowned out and can barely hear myself playing. I almost turned my RH450 to the maximum levels, but did not want to damage my brand new AE112 cabinets.

Other possible problems might be our setup. Our practice room is actually my media room (with all the theatre stuff) and the guitar cabinet and my cabinet are facing each other across the room. There are a couple of couches and stuff also in the room, since I want to keep it as a media room when people visit. Also, the room is not sound-proofed. The room is a separate room that is 5 steps up from the second floor. I wonder if the problem is that my bass sound is being absorbed through the floor?

Sufenta · #5 06-23-2010, 07:26 AM

I found myself in a similar situation as you with my HT/EX and TA501 unable to compete with a previous guitarist. After messing around unsuccessfully with a dual-amp and added 2x15 rig, I got a DB750 and NV610. Suddenly I was the one being asked to turn down!
I am, very thankfully, in a new band and my 'smaller' rig is plenty loud with lots of room to spare. The only time I've used the DB750/NV610 since has been on two non-PA supported (for bass) outside gigs.

salcott · #6 06-23-2010, 07:29 AM

I'd go for custom earplugs immediately; you guys are practicing way too loud. Your guitarist needs to get a practice amp-20-25 watts max.

Tumeni Notes · #7 06-23-2010, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salcott

I'd go for custom earplugs immediately; you guys are practicing way too loud. Your guitarist needs to get a practice amp-20-25 watts max.

Will you tell him? From my experience, telling a guitar player to turn down is like telling him that he sucks.

Before I panic too much, I seem to recall reading about a special platform that the cabinets are placed on that prevent the bass sound waves from going through the floor.

Does anyone remember what they are called? Anyone have any experience with them?

KramerBassFan · #8 06-23-2010, 07:36 AM

Turn up your mids.

DerHoggz · #9 06-23-2010, 07:36 AM

Loud practices are a good way to not be able to practice in a few years.

cassanova · #10 06-23-2010, 07:38 AM

I'm thinking if you're not able to hear yourself with 450 watts and 2x12's then the practices are just way to loud or perhaps you don't have enough mids in your tone to cut through. Maybe even both.

I've seldom had problems hearing myself with 2x10's and 100 watts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumeni Notes

Will you tell him? From my experience, telling a guitar player to turn down is like telling him that he sucks.

I have no problem asking them to turn down and few take it personally when I do. If he does take it personally trust me, he'll get over it and your hearing WILL appreciate it when he does turn down.

Tumeni Notes · #11 06-23-2010, 07:45 AM

Great suggestions so far. I will work on using more mid's also. I spent some time getting a great tone and was looking forward to using my "new" sound with the band. I remember playing a groove to show off my new system and then when the drummer and guitarist began playing, "poof" my sound seemed to disappear.

I am also going to try to rearrange the furniture and put my cabinets in the far corner. I am sure another problem is that I am standing directly in front of my cabinets and thus, the sound waves have not really developed yet when they reach me.

I also like the idea of using ear plugs. The music does not sound loud when you are playing, but you know it is. Just like jamming to a great song in the car at full volume. Then you park, do some shopping and then get back in the car and then 'BLAST - ***!!"

KramerBassFan · #12 06-23-2010, 07:47 AM

If your scooping your mids heavely, you could be loosing most of your note definition.

dmusic148 · #13 06-23-2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumeni Notes

Great suggestions so far. I will work on using more mid's also. I spent some time getting a great tone and was looking forward to using my "new" sound with the band. I remember playing a groove to show off my new system and then when the drummer and guitarist began playing, "poof" my sound seemed to disappear.

That might indicate that you have EQ'd a very 'polite' sound, which sounds great solo but gets buried easily. More mids, less (low)bass will get you heard.
Forget the sound isolating pads and other stuff- you don't need them.
You may also want to raise the whole rig a bit, to get the speakers pointing at your head more. Or tilt the upper cab with a book or something. Or raise just the upper cab with a milk crate or similar.

Son of Bovril · #14 06-23-2010, 08:29 AM

agreed, you don't need more power, just more speakers IMO sell your two 112's and buy two 8 ohm 212's that should do the volume trick and still keep your tone the same as it is now :-)

also, like the guys have said: a bass tone that sound great by itself is often not a great tone in the mix, so rather set your sound while playing with the rest of the band rather than in your bedroom when you are alone

gastric · #15 06-23-2010, 08:33 AM

Classic issue - things that sound great solo'd sound (or not at all) in the mix. Like others said, it's not about the low end, it's about the mids. Seems counter intuitive, but it's true. Scooped mids sound awesome soloed, but then all you get is low end that is felt and not heard when in the mix.

DaZombieWoof · #16 06-23-2010, 08:40 AM

How in the world does Lemmy get by with two 100 wat Marshall heads? I think nobody would accuse him of being quiet. Could be cab choice and rude tone.

Son of Bovril · #17 06-23-2010, 08:54 AM

aren't those 100watt tube heads though? and he does push quite a few cabs with them too...

Sufenta · #18 06-23-2010, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumeni Notes

Will you tell him? From my experience, telling a guitar player to turn down is like telling him that he sucks.

Before I panic too much, I seem to recall reading about a special platform that the cabinets are placed on that prevent the bass sound waves from going through the floor.

Does anyone remember what they are called? Anyone have any experience with them?

Auralex Gramma pads work the best with hollow wood stages. Otherwise I haven't noticed much of any difference with or without.

iri5h_punk21 · #19 06-23-2010, 09:31 AM

I know your pain..I have a Mesa M-pulse 600 with their Powerhouse 1200 and am STILL getting drowned out..

Though I think in part, it's due to our drummer's crappy electrical wiring in the garage..

KramerBassFan · #20 06-23-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaZombieWoof

How in the world does Lemmy get by with two 100 wat Marshall heads? I think nobody would accuse him of being quiet. Could be cab choice and rude tone.

He cuts all bass, and cranks his mids to the max.

Also doesn't care to have the word "clean headroom" in his rig at all.