DI or my XLR out?

Orpheus55 · #1 09-14-2011, 03:48 PM

I run my gear through the bhouse PA most places we play. I've been using the XLR out on my GK700RBII and my SWR Working Pro. Is there an advantage to my using my direct box (Rolls or Whirlwind) instead of the XLR on the amp? Would the signal be actually that of the bass? Never quite udnerstood how some sound guys are vehemently for DIs or the XLR Out "if it's clean."

**TRichardsbass** · #2 09-14-2011, 03:59 PM

Most sound guys become used to working with their particular DI's and can be stupid about it. I argue with them all the time when I'm using my Hartke VXL pedal. They don't want to use it because I can f$%k with the signal, giving them a post effect signal. I can give them clean, but I argue it all the time. I don't know any sound guy with the exception of one who will take you from the amp XLR out.

I don't think, in general, there is any advantage of one over the other. The one thing to do is just make them take you from the XLR out so that the signal going to your amp is in fact the same going to them.

I still want to know why bass is always direct. Guitars are always post effect, including most amplified acoustics, even when they are clean.

singlemalt · #3 09-14-2011, 04:00 PM

If you have time, try both ways to see what you like better. I have not been impressed with the XLR out on my GK, so I use a MXR M-80 DI plus.

Friday night I hooked up through the MXR and had bass in the front monitors, FOH mains, and a rear monitor with the FOH mix in it. With my amp muted, I had the coolest tight bass tone, in surround sound.

I love my set up, the GK 1001 and fEarful cabs, but I was wondering why I bothered to bring it at all. I did use the amp as well, but at a much reduced volume.

We also eliminated an obnoxiously loud guitar amp by running the guitard straight out of his Line 6 POD live thing into a stereo channel on the board. I could totally see hauling lots less gear and using only the DI's, PODs and the PA.

mroekalea · #4 09-15-2011, 03:01 AM

Some DI's have speakersimulation in it, which gives a good alternative for micing the bass-stack, but I try to insist on micing combined with a DI (prefferable on the speaker-output)

Son of Bovril · #5 09-15-2011, 03:35 AM

Some guys are adamant about sending the FOH a "Post" line from the xlr on their amp which is affected by the eq on their amp, because they want "their" sound at FOH

While if you are sending a "Pre" signal, then it doesn't really matter if you use the amp out or a DI because it should sound the same...

If you have a half decent sound guy I would suggest sending a Pre signal or using a DI, sending a Post signal is in most cases more of a mess up than an improvement.

somegeezer · #6 09-15-2011, 04:14 AM

I always use the amp DI and post EQ. My bass on its own is hardly an amazing sound and my EQ really makes it sound a lot neater. The main problem I have is the sound guy not knowing how to use the volume on my amp's DI and just getting too loud or quiet signal back to the board.

Ever since I once played and thougt my bass sounded wrong, found out after the gig that the sound guy turned off post EQ, I just can't allow it anymore. I'll happily play with the EQ if there is too much bass or not enough high end for FOH, but I'm not completely bypassing it altogether. Especially if they expect me to bring my amp in the first place. The same can't be said if you are using their bass amp or the amp from another band. Then it is out of your league and should just accept what limits they give you.

When I let other players use my amp, I mention to them, they can play with the EQ, to get their sound as close as they like it, but the volume knobs [other than the cab volume] should not be touched.

Wes Whitmore · #7 09-15-2011, 05:39 AM

The GK DIs I have used have been clean. If you don't have $150 for a nice DI, then just use it. I have always used the internal DIs of amps, and usually post EQ, but set pretty flat. There is a difference between what comes out of my basses directly, and what comes out of the bass plugged into the preamp section of the amp. I have tried some super clean preamp/DIs and it just wasn't my thing. I will probably move towards a REDDI or a Avalon, just because they are supposed to be the best preamp/DI on the market, and I want to know what I'm missing. The Avalon sounds better for me because of the variety of preset contours you can use, but the REDDI seems to sound a little better to some, from what I have read.

Son of Bovril · #8 09-15-2011, 05:52 AM

^^ if you don't like a super clean sound then the REDDI is probably a better choice than the Avalon

gillento · #9 09-15-2011, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Bovril

^^ if you don't like a super clean sound then the REDDI is probably a better choice than the Avalon

Defintely!

oerk · #10 09-15-2011, 06:56 AM

I use effects, so I usually tell the sound guy (if there is one) to use the DI on my pedal board. And since there's a VT Bass in the chain, he gets my sound with amp simulation. So far, I didn't hear any complaints.

I only use the amp's EQ for tweaking the stage sound to my liking, without messing up the FOH sound.

will33 · #11 09-15-2011, 07:43 AM

If any of you guys have ever sat on the other side of the mixing board, you'll know why they want a signal straight off your bass.

All that knob twisting you do to get "your tone" doesn't sound like you think it does through the foh system, it's a pa, not a bass rig. What sounds good to you likely doesn't sit well in the mix out front and every adjustment you make, the sound guy has to figure out what you did and undo it.

Yes, straight off the bass usually starts out sounding pretty thin and takes some enhancement at the board. That said, if the bass player can setup a sound they like on stage and then not mess with it, I'll take a post eq di. In my own band I mix us from stage and always use post eq but I'm also in control of everything there. It gets the amp flavor in the mains and takes less goofing with it on my part, I have enough other stuff to worry about.

Yes, there are some soundguys who suck at mixing bass. It's all sub woof and nothing else, almost to the point you can't tell what the bassist is playing, just notice the bottom fell out if they stop. In that case, there isn't much you can do.

Insisting on their own di usually comes from house soundmen who run 4-5 acts a night, 45min.-1hr. sets each, isn't familiar with most of them, doesn't a lot of time to be messing with things and just needs consistency to have a chance of getting everything sounding decent in the short amount of time he has to do so.

Wes Whitmore · #12 09-15-2011, 08:23 AM

Thanks for the hint on the REDDI!

joshmat · #13 09-15-2011, 08:28 AM

When I go to a venue where I haven't worked with the sound engineer before, I greet them and ask what they prefer to work with. It's as easy as "Hey there, I'm ____, I have a DI on my amp that will go post or pre, I'm flexible. Nine times out of 10 we go with the DI on my amp with the pre signal. Everyone's happy and no one turns up the suck knob!

The way I see it is that the engineer doesn't tell me what bass to play so why should I be a hard@$$ about the gear they like to use? If they're competent, you should sound just fine up front. Especially in a situation where you have the luxury of a good sound check with the full band. A PA system isn't a bass rig and requires a different touch. I've even had some engineers take my DI and run that into their box.

PS - I don't run any effects, so I don't have the same perspective as some of you folks. I would figure you could use the DI after you effects chain though?

rockstarbassist · #14 09-15-2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshmat

When I go to a venue where I haven't worked with the sound engineer before, I greet them and ask what they prefer to work with. It's as easy as "Hey there, I'm ____, I have a DI on my amp that will go post or pre, I'm flexible. Nine times out of 10 we go with the DI on my amp with the pre signal. Everyone's happy and no one turns up the suck knob!

The way I see it is that the engineer doesn't tell me what bass to play so why should I be a hard@$$ about the gear they like to use? If they're competent, you should sound just fine up front. Especially in a situation where you have the luxury of a good sound check with the full band. A PA system isn't a bass rig and requires a different touch. I've even had some engineers take my DI and run that into their box.

PS - I don't run any effects, so I don't have the same perspective as some of you folks. I would figure you could use the DI after you effects chain though?

With most "on the floor" DI's, they choke out a lot when it comes to FX, especially any kind of OD/distortion.
I even experience this with my JDI and that's a nice DI. There's no reason not to use the DI on my Mesa, at all.

Muttleybass · #15 09-15-2011, 08:43 AM

Whatever works for you, but in my case, I use a GK 800RB. The XLR out is post EQ, so when I eq it to my stage sound, the FOH doesn't sound right. So, I got a SansAmp DI so I can us that to get my awesome FOH sound, then to my amp to get my perfect stage sound.

It was a separate eq thing for me.

rockstarbassist · #16 09-15-2011, 08:46 AM

DI or my XLR out?

here's the exact same thread he started yesterday... a Merge is in order.

joshmat · #17 09-15-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

There's no reason not to use the DI on my Mesa, at all.

That's the same one I have.

rockstarbassist · #18 09-15-2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshmat

That's the same one I have.

You should try it Post DI. Sounds awesome!

Honestly the reason I always nowadays insist on Post, is because on my previous amps like the BB750 and Titan V12, the OD circuit gets bypassed when you go Pre DI. So... if like me, you were using the onboard OD channels, it doesn't hit the FOH when you do so.
I'm pretty sure on the M9 it's the same for the GEQ as well as the Voicing features, both of which I use extensively. Hence the reason for the M9 in the first place!

hehehehehe

Pickebass · #19 09-15-2011, 09:02 AM

I've been fortunate, I almost always use the DI out of my head or preamp. 9 times out of 10 it shoulds better than what they have. Having sat on the other side of the board I consider where I'm playing and what the PA is and try to adjust accordingly.

If the soundguy sees you understand their goal, they usually will not bother you about how the get the signal. As long as it is useable.

If all else fails... when he walks away, take the cord out of the DI box and plug it into your amp!

joshmat · #20 09-15-2011, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

You should try it Post DI. Sounds awesome!

... So... if like me, you were using the onboard OD channels, it doesn't hit the FOH when you do so.
...

Sorry, I misled ya! I've actually got an old first generation M-Pulse. I run it pretty clean as far as tone goes. I've often considered an M9 for the simplicity though, but I really love that M-Pulse.