Did I Damage Something?

KillerNeuron · #1 07-07-2011, 11:58 AM

I am playing a Fender 800 Pro head with a Fender Rumble 410 cab. I haven't had any issues with it until last practice. I noticed I was getting a little bit of clipping, and my speakers started getting extremely crackled at the same sound level that I always play at without any issues in the past. Did the occasional low end clipping damage my speakers already or could it be something else? My volume was at 12 o clock as well as the gain, but anything below that and I lose all my volume.

I am still a gear noob and didn't want to troubleshoot this on my own...

Post Mortal · #2 07-07-2011, 12:23 PM

Do you have active or passive pick ups? This may not be the problem but I experienced something along those lines and I was worried, then all of a sudden no sounds came out at all. We unplugged my bass and plugged my buddies in and it worked like a charm. It was just that my 9v battery for my active pickups was nearly dead so it lost power, then died and it shut off. Replaced the battery and it worked like new again.

KillerNeuron · #3 07-07-2011, 12:26 PM

I have passive pickups (MIM jazz bass). I really think it might have something to do with the clipping, which I seem to get extremely easily, although I am not sure why...

VanillaThundah · #4 07-07-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerNeuron

I have passive pickups (MIM jazz bass). I really think it might have something to do with the clipping, which I seem to get extremely easily, although I am not sure why...

Using any pedals in front of your amp? The other thing it could be is a loose output jack on your bass or some bad cables in-between your bass and amp (or your amp and cab). As with anything, remove the variables and see if you can replicate the same results. Grab a head that you know works fine and play it through your 4x10s and see if it still messes up and vice versa with your head. Sometimes it can be some loose screws holding your speakers in place...that's happened on many cabs that I've had (my GK goldlines and even my Avatar 2x10 neo).

brianmharrison · #5 07-07-2011, 12:38 PM

passive pickups should not be causing a problem since they don't have a battery to replace and they are lower output than active alot of time. Have you tried using another instrument cable to eliminate the possibility of a bad cable? is the output jack on your bass in good shape? Did you change your eq?

KillerNeuron · #6 07-07-2011, 12:57 PM

Yeah its definitely not anything bass to amp... no effects and still the same issue... changing the EQ and volume cuts it out but by the time we get the clipping to drop, i am pretty much useless since the volume is so low. Thinking about opening everything up and looking for some loose stuff I suppose.

WhoDidTheElf · #7 07-07-2011, 01:13 PM

Wait...were you playing with it constantly clipping and a heavy bass EQing?

dukeisdog · #8 07-07-2011, 01:19 PM

Turn the volume on the bass down, and on the amp up? Does the problem stay?

KillerNeuron · #9 07-07-2011, 01:44 PM

I didn't have the bass heavy on the EQ and the clipping was only minor, and once I noticed it I immediately stopped. I haven't tried turning down the volume on my bass but I was always told (perhaps ill advised?) to always keep the volume up on the instrument and do all of your volume control from the amp, pre amp, etc etc. I will definitely try that though.

Still, I have no idea why it started out of the blue with literally zero settings changes from before...

WhoDidTheElf · #10 07-07-2011, 02:32 PM

Well I know that the cab can take 500 watts RMS and is 4 ohms.... (No clue about its mechanical limitations)

The head can put out 800 Watts RMS at 4 Ohms...

You were pushing the head till it was just clipping meaning it was probably putting all of those 800 watts into that cab...

Now I am making some assumptions here...(the cab is 4 ohms, and the head was putting 800 watts pretty continuously into the cab) but that looks like a bit of a recipe for disaster...

Was the cab sounding weird before you noticed it really distorting? Like was it bottoming out or did you smell anything funny?

KillerNeuron · #11 07-07-2011, 02:36 PM

Didn't have any issues prior to it starting to crackle. No smell, no bottoming out either. Do I need to pair another cab with the head to split the load? :/

WhoDidTheElf · #12 07-07-2011, 02:41 PM

Well is that 4x10 actually 4 ohms? All I could find was that it's 4 ohms, though I don't know for sure.

If so...pairing it with another 4 ohm cab would bring your head to its full load (2ohms) and up to its peak power of 1200 watts RMS. If you were to push it to the point of clipping again...it would still be getting quite a bit of juice.

BTW, when you say clipping do you mean the power amp or pre amp?

Edit: !

If you did pair it with another cab (4x10) you wouldn't have to push it nearly as hard since you would have twice the speakers btw.

dukeisdog · #13 07-07-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerNeuron

I didn't have the bass heavy on the EQ and the clipping was only minor, and once I noticed it I immediately stopped. I haven't tried turning down the volume on my bass but I was always told (perhaps ill advised?) to always keep the volume up on the instrument and do all of your volume control from the amp, pre amp, etc etc. I will definitely try that though.

Still, I have no idea why it started out of the blue with literally zero settings changes from before...

Well my bass (Ibanez SRX 500) has really high output with the active preamp, even with the active button pushed in on my amp my bass still distorts through my speakers, and I've found that the solution to my problem is to turn the basses volume down to about 75%. Your amp will have to be cranked to be heard, but the distorting should go away.

JimmyM · #14 07-07-2011, 04:08 PM

Sounds like you're trying to be louder than your cab can go. That's all. I don't think anything's broken. If it's not enough, get another cab. But you'll still have to watch your volume because that head will do 1200 at 2 ohms, and I think those cabs taking a solid 500w pounding is pretty optimistic since it's a budget 410. Of course, the other option is for everyone in your band to turn down, but it sounds like there's as much chance of that happening as the sun exploding tomorrow.

onosson · #15 07-07-2011, 04:23 PM

I bought one of those cabs in May and returned it after one month. They cannot handle high volumes or deep bass very well. IMO they should be rated closer to 350 watts.

steveksux · #16 07-07-2011, 04:38 PM

Same as everyone else said, try swapping cables, instrument or speaker, with known good ones, try another bass if you can.

Always check the cheap stuff first!

If that doesn't work, make sure bass is passive, no battery.

If you're still getting it, either get another head or speaker, or both, and try different combinations. The bad stuff should move with the damaged component, if the head's good, it'll sound good with the borrowed speaker. If the speakers good, it'll sound good with the borrowed amp.

Assuming that head puts out more wattage than the cab can handle, at the ohms rating of the speaker, that's usually fine, the extra power lets you handle transients, SHORT bursts without clipping the amp, and the speaker will tolerate more power for a short while, as long as the average power is within the cab limits. You have to turn down when you hear signs of strain on the speakers, or clipping on the amp, do that, and you're fine.

Having said that, if you're running the amp into clipping consistently, its putting out more than the cab can handle long term, it'll burn out eventually.

If you're running a lot of bottom end, you also may have pushed your speakers into overexcursion, and popped the voice coils out of the gap, torn something, and damaged the speaker mechanically. If you gently push on the speaker, and it grinds, that's what happened.

If you hear distortion, something is being pushed beyond its limits, you have to turn down. You either don't have enough cabinet or enough power for the volume you want.

Probably more likely to have damaged the speaker, a 410 is good for most gigging situations, but if you guys are screaming loud, another cab could be needed.

Good luck, hopefully its a cable or something cheap/simple to fix.

Randy

KillerNeuron · #17 07-07-2011, 06:51 PM

Thanks everyone. I have a friend that works at the dreaded GC (although hes a legit dude, unlike most of the others there) and I think I am going to talk to him and see about maybe returning it or something, or getting a deal on another cab. We do play pretty damn loud (some original songs bump up to 3 guitars playing) and unfortunately this area has pretty shoddy venues with cheap and/or old or missing equipment, so our own rigs are pretty much always going to be what we got. My guitarist has my cab and amp right now and is going to crack it open and check out the hardware, make sure nothing got jostled out of place or something. I will keep you guys updated... this is certainly a learning opportunity for me. I think the most intimidating part about bass is the gear! :P

BTW, this is a seriously awesome community. Its sooo hard to find people who know what they are talking about sometimes!

Thank you all for being on TB!

Bass_Pounder · #18 07-07-2011, 06:55 PM

Make sure he checks the speaker cones for creasing

Munjibunga · #19 07-07-2011, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Make sure he checks the speaker cones for creasing

SHHHH! ^{He's taking it back!}

rodl2005 · #20 07-07-2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerNeuron

Thanks everyone. I have a friend that works at the dreaded GC (although hes a legit dude, unlike most of the others there) and I think I am going to talk to him and see about maybe returning it or something, or getting a deal on another cab. We do play pretty damn loud (some original songs bump up to 3 guitars playing) and unfortunately this area has pretty shoddy venues with cheap and/or old or missing equipment, so our own rigs are pretty much always going to be what we got. My guitarist has my cab and amp right now and is going to crack it open and check out the hardware, make sure nothing got jostled out of place or something. I will keep you guys updated... this is certainly a learning opportunity for me. I think the most intimidating part about bass is the gear! :P

BTW, this is a seriously awesome community. Its sooo hard to find people who know what they are talking about sometimes!

Thank you all for being on TB!

Great idea! Get a good quality 410 or bigger, that can handle the power of your amp. A 610 or 215 imo.
Goodluck!