Did I just screw myself up?

kawika5150 · #1 04-11-2011, 04:30 PM

Head unit is the 4 PRO, and its specs are as follows:

OUTPUT POWER RATING 1600 Watts Mono-Bridged @ 4 Ohms (1200 Watts Continuous)
1200 Watts Mono-Bridged @ 8 Ohms (900 Watts Continuous)
2 x 900 Watts @ 2 Ohms (600 Watts Continuous)
2 x 625 Watts @ 4 Ohms (490 Watts Continuous)
2 x 350 Watts @ 8 Ohms (300 Watts Continuous)

Will receive SP410 in the next few weeks, and its specs are:

4 ultra-lightweight 10" Neodymium loudspeakers (300 watt)
Impedance: 8ohms
Output: 1200 watts

The SP212 is:

Impedance: 8ohms
Output: 600 watts
Weight: 44lb.
Dimensions: 22-1/4"H 19-1/4"W 19-3/4"D

And below is the email I received from Loud Tech. Inc.:

I wouldn’t recommend running the cabinet in a dual-mono configuration. The cabinets would be under powered by so much that you would likely send the cabinet a clipped signal.

While, it is still significantly under powered, you might want to connect the cabinets to the SVT4Pro in mono-bridge. Since the cabinets would be connected in parallel, the two 8 ohm cabinets would put a 4 ohm load on the amp. Make sure that you use a mono bridge cable that would be wired for +1, +2 at the end that terminates at the amp and for +1, -1 for the end that terminates at the cabinet. Keeping in mind that in mono-bridge you will still under powering the cabinets by 600 watts. At very low volume, you should have a clean signal, but because of being under powered by so much, when you boost your levels clipping may occur.

So am I up the creek on this? Significantly underpowering the two cabs?

I'm not even familiar with the "+1, -1, +2" mono-bridge cable. What kind of cable is that?

Very frustrating indeed.

Selta · #2 04-11-2011, 04:36 PM

There's no such thing as under-powering a cab. As far as the cable is concerned... you just need to wire the speakon cable ends to match what the manual says. It's really easy, just need a screwdriver.

BurningSkies · #3 04-11-2011, 04:37 PM

I can't believe that Loud would send you such a bogus reply.

Underpowering is a myth. A lie.

In fact, I'm underpowering all of my speakers right now...

kawika5150 · #4 04-11-2011, 04:42 PM

I've read something on this forum at one time or another about Loud Inc's propensity to spurt out some nonsense, but I wanted to give them the benefit of a doubt.

So now I have no idea what the best way to connect the cabs to the amp. What about the "clipping" response that they made in the reply? Any worries there if I want to really drive these cabs?

Ray Salamon - still not sure what this involves. Do I have to remove the ends of the cable and do some kind of MacGyver work? Keep in mind I'm a novice about all this stuff and most of it is foreign to me.

BurningSkies · #5 04-11-2011, 05:25 PM

To use the bridged feature, you're going to have to get or make a bridging cable with speakon ends. I would do it myself, since its easy and you don't necessarily need any special skills or tools. You'll need speaker cable plus a couple 4 post speakons.

At the amp end of the cord, you'll have one wire from the speaker cable in the terminal marked +1, the other wire in your cable goes to the terminal marked +2. Leave the other two terminals empty.

At the speaker end of the cable, the +1 terminates in the +1 terminal of that speakon. The other line (the one that was connected to the +2) goes to the -1. Leave the other two terminals empty.

Edited to say, if you hear your amp start clipping or distorting in a way that you think its clipping...turn it down.

Selta · #6 04-11-2011, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawika5150

I've read something on this forum at one time or another about Loud Inc's propensity to spurt out some nonsense, but I wanted to give them the benefit of a doubt.

So now I have no idea what the best way to connect the cabs to the amp. What about the "clipping" response that they made in the reply? Any worries there if I want to really drive these cabs?

Ray Salamon - still not sure what this involves. Do I have to remove the ends of the cable and do some kind of MacGyver work? Keep in mind I'm a novice about all this stuff and most of it is foreign to me.

Burning has ya covered on the cable... it's easy once you have the parts in your hands.

I would honestly just run each cab to one side of the amp (Power amp A and Power amp B) - not worrying about bridging. Your cabs won't come near making use of all that extra wattage anyway...

kawika5150 · #7 04-11-2011, 05:39 PM

Thanks for the replies.

By connecting each cab to the Power Amp A and Power Amp B, it looks like it'll be putting out 300 continuous watts each to the SP410 and SP212 (1200W, 600W respectively).

Would this be the best connection to maximize and really test drive/push these cabs?

Selta · #8 04-11-2011, 05:40 PM

Probably... yeah, it's not soaking every inch of wattage from that head, but you won't need to do that to push those cabs to their limits. And honestly... I only ever played the SP410, but that with the SP212 and that much wattage... you'll be pretty damn loud before they begin to fart out.

BurningSkies · #9 04-11-2011, 05:42 PM

It would be easy, but certainly not "push" the cabs...it may be enough power for you though...you won't know unless you try.

Otherwise, you're looking at about ~1200w bridged, or 600w per cab, which would be a hefty amount more.

kawika5150 · #10 04-11-2011, 05:45 PM

I'll give it a try when these two beauties arrive. If anything, i could take the second recommendation on going the mono-bridged route for more power (if necessary).

Btw, we play a lot of Rush and Iron Maiden stuff, so my two guitarists are pretty cut-through loud. Hoping these babies will even things out a bit.

To obtain the parallel connection, it would be a single Speakon from the amp's mono-bridge output to one cab, then another cable from the 1st cab to the 2nd one, correct? With the bridging cable work that needs to be changed at the cable ends (I already have a few Speakon cables), do I only need to modify one cable (at each end) and not the other cable from the 1st cab to the 2nd one?

Thanks Ray and Burning!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Salamon

Probably... yeah, it's not soaking every inch of wattage from that head, but you won't need to do that to push those cabs to their limits. And honestly... I only ever played the SP410, but that with the SP212 and that much wattage... you'll be pretty damn loud before they begin to fart out.

levis76 · #11 04-11-2011, 05:48 PM

If underpowering cabinets was a real issue then amps wouldn't have volume controls. When you run an amp at low volume do the speakers burst into flame? No, they do not. Underpowering speakers is a myth that needs to go away but never will as long as there are uneducated consumers and forked tongue salesmen.

A higher power cabinet will just give you more clean volume before farting out.

I run two 8ohm 600W 410s from a single HA3500, that's 1200W of power handling and a bowel quivering 350W of power and I have never had an issue.

Note: Be sure to mark the amp end of your bridged cable so you don't plug the cable in backwards by accident, backwards being the cab end plugged into the amp.

Edit for answer: The only cable that needs to be modified is the amp end of the first cable. The cabs can be tied together with a standard speaker cable.

kawika5150 · #12 04-11-2011, 05:51 PM

Makes me wonder why Loud Tech Inc. would make this type of statement. Apparently it isn't the first time it's happened from what I understand.

billfitzmaurice · #13 04-11-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawika5150

Makes me wonder why Loud Tech Inc. would make this type of statement..

Perhaps knowing what you're talking about is apparently not a requirement to work there?

kawika5150 · #14 04-11-2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by levis76

I run two 8ohm 600W 410s from a single HA3500, that's 1200W of power handling and a bowel quivering 350W of power and I have never had an issue.

Note: Be sure to mark the amp end of your bridged cable so you don't plug the cable in backwards by accident, backwards being the cab end plugged into the amp.

Edit for answer: The only cable that needs to be modified is the amp end of the first cable. The cabs can be tied together with a standard speaker cable.

+1 on the marking of the end of the cable. I was thinking just that when I was reading Burning's reply to identify which end goes where. So you're saying I don't need to modify the cable end that terminates into the first cabinet?

kawika5150 · #15 04-11-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Perhaps knowing what you're talking about is apparently not a requirement to work there?

Then I could EASILY work there. It would improve my improvisation skills.

levis76 · #16 04-11-2011, 06:00 PM

I honestly believe that this is a case of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. If Loud's engineers knew that customer service/marketing was spouting this kind of crap to the public I bet they wouldn't be happy.

kawika5150 · #17 04-11-2011, 06:03 PM

conversely, I must say that the customer service from MF is really good. they even pronounced my last name correctly (which is japanese).

levis76 · #18 04-11-2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawika5150

So you're saying I don't need to modify the cable end that terminates into the first cabinet?

The cable that ties your cabs together should be a standard Speakon speaker cable. Only the cable that goes to the amp needs to be modified.

Another handy tip, if you're thinking of switching between bridged mono and bi amping, get an extra cable, so you have three total. Two standard Speakon cables and the modified and clearly marked bridge cable.

levis76 · #19 04-11-2011, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawika5150

I wouldn’t recommend running the cabinet in a dual-mono configuration. The cabinets would be under powered by so much that you would likely send the cabinet a clipped signal.

I read thru the OP again slowly and realized I had skimmed right over this sentence without comprehending. Now that I have gone back and read it again many times slowly, I still don't understand.

Bass cabinets are just wood boxes with a small crossover usually and a few big ass speakers, so what is clipping the signal? Clipping occurrs when there is too much signal, the peaks get attenuated or clipped. How does a small or underpowered signal get clipped?

kawika5150 · #20 04-11-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by levis76

The cable that ties your cabs together should be a standard Speakon speaker cable. Only the cable that goes to the amp needs to be modified.

Another handy tip, if you're thinking of switching between bridged mono and bi amping, get an extra cable, so you have three total. Two standard Speakon cables and the modified and clearly marked bridge cable.

Got it, just the end that goes into the amp needs to be modified.

Good suggestion on the biamp/extra cable. With the 212's, I can now utilize this feature of the amp sending the lows to the 12's and the higher frequency to the 410.