Did I kill my cabinet? (Hartke LH1000 content)

autodidact · #1 11-26-2011, 08:03 AM

Bare with me please, this takes a little back story:

So I show up at my bands practice space the other day and plug into my 1x15/4x10 stack and it seems to sound a little different. Upon closer inspection I find that my 1x15 has completely stopped working, checked all the cables and made sure it was plugged up properly, still shot. I'm taking it apart tomorrow to see if somethings loose or not but then I thought of something:

The Hartke has 4 inputs (2 side A and 2 side B) and next to each input is a little mark that says 4ohms. Both of my cabinets are 8 ohms and my 4x10 is just fine. So I'm confused as to whether its okay to run an 8ohm load into the head? Would I need to do it differently than just plugging into the regular speaker out? I'm not a fan but Wooten runs his LH1000 with an 8ohm HyDrive cabinet and it does fine. The 4ohm markers just have me thinking I may have done something wrong.

It may be a dumb question but y'all are the most knowledgeable group I know so I appreciate it.

1958Bassman · #2 11-26-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autodidact

Bare with me please, this takes a little back story:

So I show up at my bands practice space the other day and plug into my 1x15/4x10 stack and it seems to sound a little different. Upon closer inspection I find that my 1x15 has completely stopped working, checked all the cables and made sure it was plugged up properly, still shot. I'm taking it apart tomorrow to see if somethings loose or not but then I thought of something:

The Hartke has 4 inputs (2 side A and 2 side B) and next to each input is a little mark that says 4ohms. Both of my cabinets are 8 ohms and my 4x10 is just fine. So I'm confused as to whether its okay to run an 8ohm load into the head? Would I need to do it differently than just plugging into the regular speaker out? I'm not a fan but Wooten runs his LH1000 with an 8ohm HyDrive cabinet and it does fine. The 4ohm markers just have me thinking I may have done something wrong.

It may be a dumb question but y'all are the most knowledgeable group I know so I appreciate it.

You may have a bad jack (hopefully, that's all it is). Remove the plate that's used to mount the jacks and check for loose wires, broken jacks, etc.

Do you have a multi-meter and do you know how to test for resistance? Use that to check the speaker's voice coil. If you can solder, you may need to re-solder the wires but if the solder joints look shiny, they should be OK. If they're ugly and dull, re-solder them. Also, look at the connections at the speakers. If someone else went in and messed with them, this is a prime location for problems. Check each speaker, using a AA battery. You would attach a wire to each speaker terminal, hold one wire on the battery's + terminal and briefly touch the other wire to the - terminal. You should hear a popping or scratching sound. If this happens and you measured 4 or 8 Ohms on each speaker with the meter set for DC resistance, you could connect it to your stereo to test it with music if you know how to do that safely. If not, take it in for testing.

Bass_Pounder · #3 11-26-2011, 08:53 AM

The 4 ohm markings is the minimum load. Running an 8 ohm cab is fine, just less power.

Sounds like your 1X15 is a victim of the classic mismatching of running a 4X10 with a 1X15. Your not the first, and you won't be the last.

A 1X15 only has the approximate output of a 2X10, so it runs out of gas LONG before your 4X10 does.

If you have it setup like all the fancy ad copy, then you have the 1X15 on the floor where you cannot hear it straining because the 4X10 is up by your ears masking it's cries for help.

P. Aaron · #4 11-26-2011, 09:01 AM

FWIW, I use Speakon cables and run my cabs in bridge mode with a wary eye on volume level. Probably not the best either but, I am in control of the output, plus the Speakons are a more stable connection when using such a beastly amp.

Zooberwerx · #5 11-26-2011, 09:04 AM

Before you go taking anything apart, do the 9v battery test with the culprit speaker cable and 15" cabinet. Touch the + terminal to the cable tip and the - terminal to the sleeve. Your driver should kick forward with an audible "thump". If it fails, repeat the test with a second cable....you can even use an instrument cable in this situation (diagnostics) but never betweenst the head and enclosure.

Riis

christw · #6 11-26-2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Before you go taking anything apart, do the 9v battery test with the culprit speaker cable and 15" cabinet. Touch the + terminal to the cable tip and the - terminal to the sleeve. Your driver should kick forward with an audible "thump". If it fails, repeat the test with a second cable....you can even use an instrument cable in this situation (diagnostics) but never betweenst the head and enclosure.

Riis

+1 This is probably the first step you should take and proceed from there. This lets us know whether the 15" cabinet is functional as is.

As for the 8 ohm / 4 ohm thing. Each side of your head can run at 4 ohms or in other words, with two 8 ohm cabs plugged in to each side.

autodidact · #7 11-26-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Before you go taking anything apart, do the 9v battery test with the culprit speaker cable and 15" cabinet. Touch the + terminal to the cable tip and the - terminal to the sleeve. Your driver should kick forward with an audible "thump". If it fails, repeat the test with a second cable....you can even use an instrument cable in this situation (diagnostics) but never betweenst the head and enclosure.

Riis

I tested both cables from my head to my 410 and they worked fine I don't think its the cables

autodidact · #8 11-26-2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

The 4 ohm markings is the minimum load. Running an 8 ohm cab is fine, just less power.

Sounds like your 1X15 is a victim of the classic mismatching of running a 4X10 with a 1X15. Your not the first, and you won't be the last.

A 1X15 only has the approximate output of a 2X10, so it runs out of gas LONG before your 4X10 does.

If you have it setup like all the fancy ad copy, then you have the 1X15 on the floor where you cannot hear it straining because the 4X10 is up by your ears masking it's cries for help.

So do you think that it would do any better with a 2x15? I have an offer for a Kustom Groove 215 for real cheap that I'm tempted to jump at. Would that pair up better than a 410/115 set up? Would it compare volume wise?

Floyd Eye · #9 11-26-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autodidact

So do you think that it would do any better with a 2x15? I have an offer for a Kustom Groove 215 for real cheap that I'm tempted to jump at. Would that pair up better than a 410/115 set up? Would it compare volume wise?

You are going to get a lot of advice telling you to get a matching 4x10. It is good advice.

autodidact · #10 11-26-2011, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

You are going to get a lot of advice telling you to get a matching 4x10. It is good advice.

Honestly I'd love to...
But2 problems: my 4x10 is a Legion EMI-410 which isn't common. Secondly the 2x15 will run me $80 in near mint condition, a decent 4x10 will be much more and I'm broke as a joke.

dmusic148 · #11 11-26-2011, 10:08 AM

There is no way to predict how that pair will sound, or how loud it will be. Total crapshoot. The reason people advise getting a matching 4x10(I read your post about how yours is unusal/hard to find)is because it will sound exactly the way it does now, only much, much louder. What you propose may work great, or it may suck. No way to predict.

Rory.O.Glory · #12 11-26-2011, 10:15 AM

I used to have the same stack and the same issues. I was fortunate to get it on a discount directly from Larry Hartke (if you're around NYC go to the 48th St. Sam Ash while he's around and jaw his ear off for a bit - he'll give you an endorsement deal) which was a great deal until the speakers started blowing out months later. After they'd replaced or fixed each of the speakers several times I decided to sell the thing and be very honest with the next buyer about the issues.

I used the speakon cables and only ran into issues as a stack if i had it going for a few hours above 6 or 7. But if I was using the speaker cabinets separately (say I didn't want to also drag the 15" to a small gig) I would almost certainly blow out a speaker.

My advice? Sell it to someone who doesn't need to push it as hard. The amp is great - the speakers aren't.

Floyd Eye · #13 11-26-2011, 10:17 AM

If you are going to mismatch cabs like that, make sure the power rating on the cabinet you get is enough to handle half the wattage your amp will put out. I used a 4x10 and a 1x18 for many, many years and I was pleased with the sound and nothing was damaged. I bought a matching 4x10 though and I am happy.

Zooberwerx · #14 11-26-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autodidact

I tested both cables from my head to my 410 and they worked fine I don't think its the cables

Okay, great...that should eliminate the cables from contention. Now go try the 9v test on the 15.

Riis

BassmanPaul · #15 11-26-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autodidact

So I show up at my bands practice space the other day and plug into my 1x15/4x10 stack and it seems to sound a little different. Upon closer inspection I find that my 1x15 has completely stopped working.

Sadly this is why the 1x15 plus 4x10 is bad. A single 15 can't compete with a 4x10. Folk tend to buy into the myth that a 15 will produce more lows because of it's larger cone. Most often a 4x10 will give more of those than a 15.

autodidact · #16 11-26-2011, 11:33 AM

If I could fins another 410 would it have to be the same brand?

RickenBoogie · #17 11-26-2011, 01:52 PM

Ideally, yes- it would be an exact duplicate. Maybe try to sell what you've got, and start over with 2 matching cabs. They don't have to be 4x10's.

NicJimBass · #18 11-26-2011, 01:56 PM

There is a lot of talk here about the cabs being mismatched... be that as it may, the LH1000 has a blend control to even out the volume of the 2 cabs, so, as long as your 115 is still functional (+3 on the 9v battery test) run the cabs, one per side of the amp, and blend it to where the output from both is similar.

NicJimBass · #19 11-26-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autodidact

So do you think that it would do any better with a 2x15? I have an offer for a Kustom Groove 215 for real cheap that I'm tempted to jump at. Would that pair up better than a 410/115 set up? Would it compare volume wise?

Be aware of what impedance the 215 is... I imagine it may be 4ohms. You can stil easily run both cabs with the LH1000, but the blend may become necessary to keep the 215 from overpowering the 410 a bit.

alexclaber · #20 11-26-2011, 02:01 PM

If you use the balance control to equalise the loudness of the 4x10" and the 1x15" you are even more likely to toast the 15" as you'll be pushing twice as much power into a cab with about half the power handling. I love how much power the LH1000 has - it works so well with our cabs - but I'm not surprised to hear of other cabs struggling with it in loud situations.