Did I mess up three years ago?

Catbuster · #1 09-22-2011, 08:58 PM

Sorry for the flood of amplification questions as of late, but these questiions have popped into my head lately, and I'll probably forget them later.

I do tend to repsect the majority of opinions on TB, or I wouldn't ask

I went with a 700RBII a couple of years ago, thinking I would only ever need a 4x10 powered...

So, I walk in to practice today, and my guitar player has a Mesa Boogie Mark V and a 4x12. I know the 700RB likes it's legs stretched out quite a bit, but did I make a bad move now by not spending the extra money for the 1001RB? If I bi-amp for both 410s, I'm wondering if I have the headroom to keep up with my guitar player, should he choose to go louder...

Unfortunately, the guitar player doesn't have a smaller rig. It's the Mark V of he gets drowned out by the 700RB even at low volumes.

Marton · #2 09-22-2011, 09:11 PM

I know that I would never play with a band that is louder than my 700RB. Seriously.

But, adding another 4x10 will increase the headroom a lot. It will be way louder than a 1001RB in only one cab.

But, in the end, Mesa guitar heads are like any other amplifier and have a "volume" knob, right ?

groooooove · #3 09-22-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marton

I know that I would never play with a band that is louder than my 700RB. Seriously.

But, adding another 4x10 will increase the headroom a lot. It will be way louder than a 1001RB in only one cab.

But, in the end, Mesa guitar heads are like any other amplifier and have a "volume" knob, right ?

thats like doing the speed limit in a ferrari

get yourself another 4x10 and let the games begin.

**B-string** · #4 09-22-2011, 09:16 PM

If you 410 is 8 ohms get a second cab. The power difference between the 700RB and 1001RB is not as big as the volume difference of doubling your speakers. Or get a NEO 412

BassmanSBK · #5 09-22-2011, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marton

But, in the end, Mesa guitar heads are like any other amplifier and have a "volume" knob, right ?

I think what the OP is saying is that his guitar knob has only one volume . . . .

rmars · #6 09-22-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groooooove

thats like doing the speed limit in a ferrari

get yourself another 4x10 and let the games begin.

LMAO! Yeah, I second this.... how can I not? ........

In my experience with REALLY loud guitarist and 10" bass speakers I will usually need to run twice as many speakers as them. 1x12=210, 2x12=410, 4x12=810 (410x2)....

You may ultimately need more watts but increase your speaker surface area is what I would do first.

PunkRocker33133 · #7 09-22-2011, 10:12 PM

Buy an 810 or a 612. it'll be easier to move

deeptubes · #8 09-22-2011, 10:22 PM

I've got the 1001 RB-II and an SWR Workingman's Tower (8x10). When I crank it, crap falls from the ceiling. No exaggeration. My rig is pretty much untouchable. Completely bad ass!

Nev375 · #9 09-22-2011, 10:28 PM

Take a shotgun to practice with you and lean it up in the corner. If the guitarist asks, do your best "sling blade" Billy Bob Thornton impression: "I'm fixin' ta shewt you with it if you get louder than my rig.....mmmhm"

georgestrings · #10 09-22-2011, 11:45 PM

Gotta be a speaker problem - I use a 700rb-II against 2 Triple Rec half stacks all the time, and never run out of headroom - but that's with either a 610, 810, or 215...

- georgestrings

Gearhead17 · #11 09-23-2011, 01:31 AM

Get an identical 410 and blast off! It's a bit rediculous for a guitar player to have a 412 anyway......especially for practice. A single 212 works on the majority of stages out there, a single 12 can be used for practice and still sound good. A 412 on a monster sized stage is not a bad idea.....

You have a good head and you will be fine. Stay away from the contour knob (all the way to the left for the flat setting) and you should kill the guitarist with two 410's.

bigfatbass · #12 09-23-2011, 01:33 AM

Buy a 610 or an 810.

And ear plugs.

Catbuster · #13 09-23-2011, 05:27 AM

I currently have two 410s. A NEO 410 (I kinda gave up on weight) and a 410MBX. I just wasn't sure if the 700RB would be able to power the two 410s effectivel. If the 1001RB would more effectively drive the two heads, even at just low volumes, I'll be working saving for on a new head.

nysbob · #14 09-23-2011, 06:02 AM

In the still of the night, sneak into the practice space and disconnect his bottom two 12"s. He'll never know the difference.

It'll save you some dough and both of you your ears.

beans-on-toast · #15 09-23-2011, 06:22 AM

The Mark V has a 90W/45W/10W output power switch as well as master volume. I have a Mark IV and had a Mark III Coliseum with two 412 cabinets. There isn't a problem getting a good tone at lower volume levels with these amps.

Your guitar player just wants to be loud. Maybe he can get some in-ear monitors and only destroy his own hearing.

Gearhead17 · #16 09-23-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nysbob

In the still of the night, sneak into the practice space and disconnect his bottom two 12"s. He'll never know the difference.

It'll save you some dough and both of you your ears.

Although that is terrible, I agree with it.

BassmanPaul · #17 09-23-2011, 01:32 PM

All the talk about adding another 4x10 is moot if the amp can't handle a second cab. If the OP's cab is 4Ω he is stuck where he is. If his cabinet is 8Ω then a second identical cabinet is the way he should go. That said, I'd not like to be in the same room as the OP's band if a single 4x10 is too quiet!

Bass players can never win at volume wars.

Catbuster · #18 09-23-2011, 02:04 PM

So, I guess my question is; will the 700RB sufficiently power both 410s, should I need to crank it open?

TripleDouble · #19 09-23-2011, 02:14 PM

Open up your guitar players cab and disconnect 2 or 3 speakers. Or maybe just do all 4.

**mintondm** · #20 09-23-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catbuster

So, I guess my question is; will the 700RB sufficiently power both 410s, should I need to crank it open?

The 700RB is sitting at around a labeled 480 Watts at 8 Ohms. I looked and I didn't see where you specified the cab, but I'll make some assumptions you went with a GK Cab as well:

If your using a NEO410, your cab head is 800 Watts "RMS" at 8 ohms, doubling the cabs gives you a 4ohm load at something like maybe 1400-1500 watt limit (remember your "wattage RMS rating" is not additive, even in parallel), so while you've reduced your impedance, you've increased your power handling and in theory, efficiency to some extent. So you WILL get more usable power out of the amp by sacrificing power distribution to each cabinet. It's just physics and the laws of electricity. So while you increase you cabs, move more air, thicken you frequency zone in front of the cabinets, you will get more efficiency out of the 700RB. That's one route. The other route, is do to what I did...

In one of my bands (the metal original band) I have two screaming loud Mesa Full stack guitarists who both think they are lead guitarist and I swear to go they must be stone freaking deaf. I acctually lost one of my 115 cabs trying to keep up one day. I JUST picked up a Hartke HX810 to use with my GK 1001RB-II... Just sent a pic to my drummer and he called me pissing himself cause he knows what it's like dealing with two out of control guitarists (I can't hear my drummers kicks without them being triggered and in a PA! So I really feel your plight sir, but in order to keep up, your only option is gonna be more drivers, I hate to say it cause it's expensive, but it WILL get you heard.

Also, as a side note, a little used trick to get the bass sound to stand out; Just out the highs a little and nudge up that mid range a little. Your GK head really defines the Mid-Low range REALLY well, you should be cutting through the mix in no time!