differences between low and high watt variations of the same amp.

[tubaman2]

Hello all. I was wondering if there are any real differences between lower and higher watt versions of the same amp. Like if its the same model amp but one is 500 watts and the other 800, will they have the same character, just at different wattages, or does the extra wattage add more than just volume?
I understand that this probably makes a significant difference in tube amps, but I'm talking more about solid state.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

They probably share the same pre-amp section but have a different power amp section.

If the class of operation and the circuit topology is the same in both amps, they should sound the same.

I'm a bit curious though, what manufacturer would make two nearly identical amps for the market?

500W->800W in the back panel will only fool the most ignorant of the buyers into thinking that one or the other sounds more/less powerful.

Regards
Sam

[sikamikanico]

in theory, i don't think there is a difference...

in practice, louder often seems "better". Also, if you want a weaker amp to go louder, you may end up overdriving it...

[tubaman2]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Hi.

They probably share the same pre-amp section but have a different power amp section.

If the class of operation and the circuit topology is the same in both amps, they should sound the same.

I'm a bit curious though, what manufacturer would make two nearly identical amps for the market?

500W->800W in the back panel will only fool the most ignorant of the buyers into thinking that one or the other sounds more/less powerful.

Regards
Sam

Actually, it seems like a lot do. In particular I was lookin at the markbass hybrid offerings. Carvin and genz benz seem to be doing the same thing.

[WingKL]

There can be real differences between a higher and lower power version of the same amp. For example, the GK 700RB and 1001RB have the exact same preamp and power amp circuit. The only difference is the voltage of the power supply and the power capacitor ratings AFAIK. However you can detect a difference in how warm the tone is. I believe this is due to the difference in operating points of the driver/power transistors in the power section caused by the difference in the voltage rail but having the other component values the same.

[tubaman2]

Originally Posted by WingKL

There can be real differences between a higher and lower power version of the same amp. For example, the GK 700RB and 1001RB have the exact same preamp and power amp circuit. The only difference is the voltage of the power supply and the power capacitor ratings AFAIK. However you can detect a difference in how warm the tone is. I believe this is due to the difference in operating points of the driver/power transistors in the power section caused by the difference in the voltage rail but having the other component values the same.

At the risk of sounding ignorant, which model had more warmth? I'm assuming the 1001, but I don't like to make assumptions.

[Munjibunga]

Eden seems to manage to keep a very similar tone profile in, say, their WT-300, WT-550 and WT800 amps. It'll be interesting to hear what differences may exist between the TC RH450 and RH750.

I have the Aguilar AG500 and DB750, and they are significantly different in tone, but they don't purport to fill the same tonal niche.

[tubaman2]

If anyone was wondering, I was asking because I got to try out a markbass tube 800 and really really liked it. I just don't feel like I need that much power and I would also like to spend less.

[agedhorse]

Even though amps may have similar (seemingly identical) preamps and different power ratings, the additional power can allow the designer to fine tune some preamp parameters to take advantage of the different power levels. There may also be subtle differences in the power amps operating conditions at higher powers versus lower powers, things like output impedance/damping factor that MAY be audible under hard drive conditions.

[DigthemLows]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Even though amps may have similar (seemingly identical) preamps and different power ratings, the additional power cal allow the designer to fine tune some preamp parameters to take advantage of the different power levels. There may also be subtle differences in the power amps operating conditiona at higher powers versus lower powers, things like output impedance/damping factor that MAY be audible under hard drive conditions.

Although, my Streamliner 600 really seems to sound exactly the same as my buddies 900?? .......... of course my hearing may not be the greatest after standing so damn close to crash cymbals for 25 years..........hehe..............it just sounds soooo good! Thank you!!

[silky smoove]

Originally Posted by tubaman2

If anyone was wondering, I was asking because I got to try out a markbass tube 800 and really really liked it. I just don't feel like I need that much power and I would also like to spend less.

If you're referring to the LMTube800, and the LMTube; They do not sound alike. The 800 is class D, whereas the 500 is class AB. They sound quite a bit different from one another in this particular execution.

[Aussie Player]

The increase in watts does not make the dfference but the change to speakers to accomodate the extra power/watts does.

Hartke is a good example as their amps are similar with higher wattage versions of the same "face".

If you play a 350 W amp through a 4x10 and compare that to a 500 W amp through an 8 x10 box there will eb a huge lift in sound which is not just attributable to the 150 watts difference because in actual fact, you probably will not be driving that amp much more than the 350 version but the extra speakers push a lot more air and give you a bigger sound.

If you put the 350 W head on the 8x10 box, you will still get a big sound and the speakers will be humming along with no strain at all because of the 450 Watts headroom.

[tubaman2]

Originally Posted by silky smoove

If you're referring to the LMTube800, and the LMTube; They do not sound alike. The 800 is class D, whereas the 500 is class AB. They sound quite a bit different from one another in this particular execution.

Oh, well darn. Thank you for that. Guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and spend a little extra on this one.

[srxplayer]

If everything was exactly the same in the preamp section, using the same power amp technology, the signal chain leading into the preamp is the same and using the same cabinet. I always equated the difference to being noticed at higher volumes. Not in the actual volume db output as there won't be much difference. But in the calrity and the ability to reproduce the tone, especially lower notes as in the Low B or open E at higher volumes without clipping.

Am I in left field on this?

[seanm]

Originally Posted by srxplayer

If everything was exactly the same in the preamp section, using the same power amp technology, the signal chain leading into the preamp is the same and using the same cabinet. I always equated the difference to being noticed at higher volumes. Not in the actual volume db output as there won't be much difference. But in the calrity and the ability to reproduce the tone, especially lower notes as in the Low B or open E at higher volumes without clipping.

Am I in left field on this?

Yes and no You are right about clarity, but it might not be clipping. Depending on the amp you might get compression on the tones at louder volumes. So you might actually prefer the lower wattage amp because it compresses at lower volumes.

[WingKL]

Which is also a reason why the GK 700RB is usually preferred over the 1001RB, for it's warmth and the ability to hit the rails at lower volumes.