Differences in Stack Sound

Adlerburg · #1 09-23-2010, 10:28 AM

My current rig is comprised of the (in)famous and IMHO kewl looking 115 + 410 stack. I've defended the mismatch to countless folks who appear to know, more than me apparently, that 2 of the same is "much" better than what I have. I'm not looking at all to rehash that, but would like some insight into the differences between a (2)15" stack and (8)10" stack.
I've all but succumbed to the matched cabs being better (thanks TB), so now I must

get either a matching 115, or 410. Would y'all kindly give me some sonic insights/differences between a 2-15 rig and an 8-10 rig? Pros and cons of each?
Thanks.
-Mick

billfitzmaurice · #2 09-23-2010, 11:18 AM

2x15 has wider midrange dispersion and no combing of the highs, 8x10 has higher sensitivity. Those are the only objective conclusions one can make based purely on the drivers and layout.

Adlerburg · #3 09-23-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

2x15 has wider midrange dispersion and no combing of the highs, 8x10 has higher sensitivity. Those are the only objective conclusions one can make based purely on the drivers and layout.

Thanks for the reply. I got everything except "combing of the highs" sorry.. could you explain that please.

Mola Ram · #4 09-23-2010, 11:55 AM

HAH, I have the EXACT same cab stack. If you were near Chicago we could just do a trade.

Adlerburg · #5 09-23-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mola Ram

HAH, I have the EXACT same cab stack. If you were near Chicago we could just do a trade.

Which would you prefer if you were going to match 'em? 2x115 or 2x410? Why?

mellowgerman · #6 09-23-2010, 12:23 PM

2x15 IMO

Mola Ram · #7 09-23-2010, 12:30 PM

That's a pretty darn good question.

I've said before that I really can't hear a major difference between the two in the first place so based on the shear idea that people say a 410 is louder I'd probably go in that direction. Also its the one I have on top so its probably the one I hear more and I dig the sound I get outta them.

Honestly though, I find nothing wrong with the rig, and while its probably not "optimal" i don't plan on spening any money on another cab anytime soon.

But then I also zone out at work and fantasize about getting two Neo 212's. Why? I have no idea.

I always wanted to ask someone this though. If you were blindfolded and someone played a stack would you be able to tell if it was a 2x410 or a 410/115?

Adlerburg · #8 09-23-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mola Ram

That's a pretty darn good question.
410 is louder I'd probably go in that direction.

Interesting.... I a/b'ed the two cabs and lean toward liking the 15 better with my bass/rig. I guess if I were in Chi-town, or you were in NY, we both might have matched stacks.. me with 2-15's and you with 8-10's

billfitzmaurice · #9 09-23-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adlerburg

Thanks for the reply. I got everything except "combing of the highs" sorry.. could you explain that please.

Google 'comb filtering'. It happens whenever drivers are placed side by side with their centers more than a wavelength apart. With tens that's from about 1kHz on up. It's not a huge concern with bass, not nearly so much as the halving of dispersion with side by side drivers, but it is there. With vertical drivers it isn't.

Sartori · #10 09-23-2010, 04:26 PM

So far I've liked most of the 15" cabs I've played through more than most of the cabs with 10" speakers I've played through.

That said, I've also played some 15"s that I've really disliked, too.

Go with two of whichever cab you like the sound of more.

Adlerburg · #11 09-23-2010, 06:51 PM

I spoke to an old buddy who used to do live sound for us regarding this. He explained that 15's sounded better in the immediate vicinity within about 10' or less of the stack, and 10's were more of a long throw speaker and sounded much better 20'+ out.... but was not as sweet as the 15's up close (stage volume).
Sounded strange to me, but he has done sound professionally for more than 25 years. Does anyone concur with that? Experience that? It is an interesting concept, as in rehearsal, the 115 cab sounds better to me than the 410.... but I haven't the room to listen to the 410 twenty plus feet out.

Sartori · #12 09-23-2010, 06:55 PM

My 15" cab sounds pretty good from far away. I dunno.

billfitzmaurice · #13 09-23-2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adlerburg

I spoke to an old buddy who used to do live sound for us regarding this. He explained that 15's sounded better in the immediate vicinity within about 10' or less of the stack, and 10's were more of a long throw speaker and sounded much better 20'+ out.... but was not as sweet as the 15's up close (stage volume).
Sounded strange to me, but he has done sound professionally for more than 25 years. Does anyone concur with that?

There's no such thing as a long throw speaker. What he probably noticed was that fifteens had wider dispersion, making it easier to hear them closer in when off-axis than horizontally placed tens.

Adlerburg · #14 09-23-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

There's no such thing as a long throw speaker. What he probably noticed was that fifteens had wider dispersion, making it easier to hear them closer in when off-axis than horizontally placed tens.

That makes good sense to me now.. thanks
I would think you could liken that to a sub woofer not really having to be pointed at you as it disperses widely, and tweets are very directional... I know that is an exaggerated example, but it seems like a bit of a parallel

4StringsEnough · #15 09-24-2010, 01:16 AM

8x10 looks cooler than 2x15.

baron665 · #16 09-24-2010, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mola Ram

But then I also zone out at work and fantasize about getting two Neo 212's. Why? I have no idea.

Me too. But with a 2x15 stack. The Basson B15B looks too beautiful, and I am GASing for a pair.

i_got_a_mohawk · #17 09-24-2010, 03:43 AM

Really depends on the individual speaker cabs as opposed to generalisations (other than the ones pointed out by Bill).

If you like the 4x10 + 1x15 setup, why not stick with it? While it might not be optimal, sound is about personal preference.

I do like both my 2x15 and 8x10, but I think my 8x10 is more of a keeper. It just manages to sit perfectly in the mix, without being lost in the mix. The 2x15 does sound awesome, especially on it's own, but not as great in my current band situations as the 8x10. (but those are just mine).

Adlerburg · #18 09-24-2010, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

It just manages to sit perfectly in the mix, without being lost in the mix. The 2x15 does sound awesome, especially on it's own, but not as great in my current band situations as the 8x10. (but those are just mine).

This could be a very important point here. As a recording engineer, it's a fact that just because your tone is perfect (be it guitar, bass, etc) standalone, that it will sit nice in the mix. For example, every mix that I've done I've eq'ed guitar tone to sit in the mix... you get big smiles all around and cheers that the guitar sounds crushing and phat and beautiful... THEN, when you solo the guitar track.. you watch all the mouths drop as it sounds thin and lifeless... but it sits perfect with all the other frequencies in the mix.

i_got_a_mohawk · #19 09-24-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adlerburg

This could be a very important point here. As a recording engineer, it's a fact that just because your tone is perfect (be it guitar, bass, etc) standalone, that it will sit nice in the mix. For example, every mix that I've done I've eq'ed guitar tone to sit in the mix... you get big smiles all around and cheers that the guitar sounds crushing and phat and beautiful... THEN, when you solo the guitar track.. you watch all the mouths drop as it sounds thin and lifeless... but it sits perfect with all the other frequencies in the mix.

Without a doubt. I think most bass players have an understanding of this, guitarists (at least in my experience), not so much!

billfitzmaurice · #20 09-24-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adlerburg

That makes good sense to me now.. thanks
I would think you could liken that to a sub woofer not really having to be pointed at you as it disperses widely, and tweets are very directional... I know that is an exaggerated example, but it seems like a bit of a parallel

It's spot on. Dispersion is relative to the size of the radiating plane versus wavelength. An 18" sub is very small compared to the 10 to 30 foot wavelengths it produces, so output is omnidirectional. A twelve inch guitar driver is very large compared to the 4 to 6 inch wavelengths of the high mids, so it beams them like a laser.

Quote:

The Basson B15B looks too beautiful, and I am GASing for a pair.

How a speaker looks should be the last reason for GASing over it. If players auditioned cabs blindfolded while traversing the room buying habits, and manufacturer offerings, would change in record time.