Direct Out - pre or post eq?

[Edword]

Even if my amp's tone sounds good onstage, it might not in the audience. It seems that if I use my amp's DO post-eq, then it might be harder for the sound man to adjust it for the audience than if I used it pre-eq. Is that true, or just a bad guess on my part?

[KJung]

In 9 of 10 cases, this is exactly right. The EQ applied to a bass cab on stage is typically quite different from what is needed front of house.

So +1. I've never run a post EQ DI in 30 years of playing. However, I do not use effects and like a clean tone. Many mic up a cab when their rig is a large part of their tone (like an SVT pushed to grind, etc.).

[MNAirHead]

Your bass will sound tons different mid room..

Once it leaves your bass.. leave it up to the sound guy.... send them a clean predictable signal.

Tim

[4-string]

There's that, and the fact that a lot of (or most) soundmen don't care one bit about bass tone, as long as it sits in the mix. Every time I convince the sound God to accept my amp's DI, I give him a post EQ signal to begin with. If he bothers to have a look and see that the button is on post, he will usually go nuts, if he doesn't even look he's usually happy.

I have a couple of pedals (Boss graphic EQ and VT bass) I can use to radically alter my clean tone. Combined with the onboard EQ, I can get pretty much anything I want. Never, EVER had a complain as long as the pre/post button is in the "correct" pre position.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by 4-string

There's that, and the fact that a lot of (or most) soundmen don't care one bit about bass tone, as long as it sits in the mix. Every time I convince the sound God to accept my amp's DI, I give him a post EQ signal to begin with. If he bothers to have a look and see that the button is on post, he will usually go nuts, if he doesn't even look he's usually happy.

I have a couple of pedals (Boss graphic EQ and VT bass) I can use to radically alter my clean tone. Combined with the onboard EQ, I can get pretty much anything I want. Never, EVER had a complain as long as the pre/post button is in the "correct" pre position.

That's the guy's job.

And no.. you can't articulate a bass tone in the same way as a vocals or guitars etc.

There's no reason why if the "sweet spot" instruments need the most attention, why they should be concerned with the bass.

Unfortunately we need to remember our ensemble role.

Most sound guys like as few variables as possible.. many have a set list of how they like to receive sound..

If everyone had a list of variables (they liked to play with) it's possible they'd have a matrix of thousands of possiblities.

[4-string]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

That's the guy's job.

And no.. you can't articulate a bass tone in the same way as a vocals or guitars etc.

There's no reason why if the "sweet spot" instruments need the most attention, why they should be concerned with the bass.

Unfortunately we need to remember our ensemble role.

Most sound guys like as few variables as possible.. many have a set list of how they like to receive sound..

If everyone had a list of variables (they liked to play with) it's possible they'd have a matrix of thousands of possiblities.

I know that's his job. I didn't say there's anything wrong with it, my point was that you can't rely on the sound man to give you (your idea) of good bass tone, you have to give it to him.

[JimmyM]

for newbies, i recommend pre. for more experienced players, i think post is perfectly fine. for guys like me who know exactly what they want and have the clout to get it, do whatever you want and make the soundman deal with it

i hate soundmen who say, "give me pre-eq because it makes my job easier." sorry, but nobody cares about making my job easier. if an act comes into soundcheck with new songs, i'm learning them whether i want to or not. so the soundman can just deal as far as i'm concerned.

[unclekebm]

with my amp/cab - pre
amp no cab - post

99% of the time I run my rigs flat anyway

that said, my bass sounds incredibly awesome no matter how I send the signal
I don't alter it from it's natural sound/tone other than with my fingers...

[countrybassist]

I run post always.

[Joeykun]

I always give our sound man pre eq on the DI.
He likes the sound of my rig so some shows he
will throw a mic on one of the cabs and blend them.

But, I let him deal with the FOH. I'll deal with the stage sound!

[4-string]

Originally Posted by Joeykun

But, I let him deal with the FOH. I'll deal with the stage sound!

I agree, but some guys just annoy me with their attitude. When their not even willing to try anything but their way, I'll do my best to avoid them in the future. The last guy we had (who subbed for one of our regular guys) insisted on a separate DI box, and he asked me to cut "as much as possible" at around 150-200hz. Note, this was as I was setting up, I hadn't even plugged in yet, and this was the first time he did sound for us.

I will not do another gig with him running FOH.

[unclekebm]

IME, sound men always let me do whatever I want...with my rig (heads out of the gutter)

that said, we're working a weekly with some lazy ars'd tattle telling idiots
every thing we do wrong (in their eyes) he'll call our agent and tell on us
Union guys - go figure... set it, forget it, and if we ask for anything, it's a problem

[Lowest End]

I'm both a bassist and sound guy and can say safely that...

When mixing, I don't care what a bassist gives me, so long as it sounds good and I can mix it in. (you know, as long as i can do my job).

When playing, I prefer post-EQ, but if that's an issue for some reason, pre is fine too. I don't go nuts with my EQ and my pedals (when used) are in front of the amp.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Joeykun

I always give our sound man pre eq on the DI.
He likes the sound of my rig so some shows he
will throw a mic on one of the cabs and blend them.

But, I let him deal with the FOH. I'll deal with the stage sound!

+1 The cool thing is, there are a couple of great sound professionals I work with on occasion who make a point to come up and listen to my rig on stage during sound check. They then have a pretty good idea of what I am trying to achieve. I send them a pre DI clean signal, and they seem to do a good job of EQing, etc. so that my basic 'tone' comes through nicely. I guess I'm lucky!

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by Lowest End

I'm both a bassist and sound guy and can say safely that...

When mixing, I don't care what a bassist gives me, so long as it sounds good and I can mix it in. (you know, as long as i can do my job).

When playing, I prefer post-EQ, but if that's an issue for some reason, pre is fine too. I don't go nuts with my EQ and my pedals (when used) are in front of the amp.

Very cool to hear this from someone familiar with both roles. Sure some soundmen prefer bass into DI into bass amp, but the most recent soundman I worked with wanted the last available DI in my rig (which happened to be parallel out from my power amp), and others have offered to mic my rig. So, as with so many other topics, there's no right or wrong, just personal preference.

Yes, the big caveat to going post-EQ or mic is that tweaking your rig (volume and/or tone) will affect the FOH mix. Still -- guitarists are nearly always mic'd, so I don't really understand the big deal with using post-EQ or mic for bass.

[Joeykun]

Originally Posted by Lowest End

When mixing, I don't care what a bassist gives me, so long as it sounds good and I can mix it in.

+1 If you have to do alot of EQing on stage I would think a PRE EQ would be best to the FOH.

On the other hand if your amp sounds great in the room with little or no EQ to adjust...I would think POST would be great.

The DI on my Genz Benz Shuttle Max head is really good and sounds fantastic either way. But, if I need to cut back on some bass because the room is boomy I dont want to send the POST EQ to the FOH.

If you have a good sounding bass you really dont need to send a POST EQ unless your amp is a big part of your sound.

I like the blending thing my sound guy does. He gets a super clean DI of just my Sadowsky bass and then blends that nice live tone I get out of my Shuttle Max!! Best of both worlds.

But, there are not alot of sound guys that will take the time to do it!

[Lowest End]

Originally Posted by Joeykun

But, there are not alot of sound guys that will take the time to do it!

Or that have the time.

I don't mix much anymore, but back when I was doing 5-band-per-gig shows I'd just have a DI box and tell people to plug into that, no exceptions. 15 minute changeovers go by REAL ****ING FAST so any possible chance I have to save time means the bands get to play longer. Also, and I can't speak for all sound guys, as long as the band was a not bunch of dicks to me, I'd do my best to get them sounding good*.



* doing a good job also gets you noticed as a sound guy and gets you more gigs. Who'da thunk it!

[jaywa]

I've only sent a post-EQ signal out of my amp one time, and that was at the request of the sound guy himself. Otherwise I assume they want a signal as unaltered as possible. And I prefer to send a pre-EQ signal cause then I can tweak my EQ onstage without affecting the house sound.

[MNAirHead]

Maybe the last note was the most prudent to reread..

Sound guy PR is the biggest ticket to a good FOH sound.

I wasted tons of years fighting on an elusive tone that I thought I was creating.. it was only the day I broke my ribs and sat with the sound guy (using all my own gear) that I understood how foolish I was.

That said.. 2 of my DIs have tone shaping.. if the guy is a hack.. I'll send him a preorganized band mix version.

If the guy knows what he's doing (and is cool about team work).. he'll get a signal any way requested.

I can't tell you the number of times I've bought a sound guy a beer .. brought it to him and requesting to learn some of his "tricks".. for some reason they all claim to have invented the solo/mute button and to have labled it the Ahole button..

Why not just supply the signal as requested.. if hes paid by you =-- you then write it into your band sound plan.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 The cool thing is, there are a couple of great sound professionals I work with on occasion who make a point to come up and listen to my rig on stage during sound check. They then have a pretty good idea of what I am trying to achieve. I send them a pre DI clean signal, and they seem to do a good job of EQing, etc. so that my basic 'tone' comes through nicely. I guess I'm lucky!

IME, unless you're on the pro circuit those kinds of sound guys are one in a million. You're very lucky, Ken!