DO I NEED TO "BREAK IN" A NEW BASS CAB ???

mb94952 · #1 02-20-2011, 01:13 AM

I have always bought used and never worried about breaking in a new bass cab.

Well, I just bought a new Markbass Traveler 102p at Guitar Center on a special weekend sale. I got it for the price of a used one, so I couldn't refuse it.

Do I need to play a new 210 cab at lower volumes for a while, or can I bring it to band practice "right out of the box" so to speak ?

Thanks - Mike

bassdude51 · #2 02-20-2011, 02:04 AM

Andy Lewis of Acme says bass woofers need to be "broken it". Don't push it to it's limit. Play it at about a 50% volume level with all tones at flat or less. For about 10 hours of play time. If it is indeed "out of the box", give it a break in period. If you bought a rig from Guitar Center that was on the floor, it's probably already broken it for ya by the multitudes that plugged in and played it.

KJung · #3 02-20-2011, 05:21 AM

Absolutely ZERO reason to break in that cab. Per the comment above, if you have a cab with super hi xmax drivers like the Acme (i.e., drivers that have lots of travel), then it is a good idea to play at moderate volumes for 10 minutes or so to make sure the surrounds are loosened up. That is a rare exception.

You MIGHT notice the low end opening up a touch as you play for the first few hours (more noticeable on some cabs than others), but that will just happen 'naturally'. There is no reason to 'do something special' to make this happen.

Play your new cab for 10 minutes or so at moderate volume just to make sure it works right, and then head to the gig and crank it up.

billfitzmaurice · #4 02-20-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassdude51

Andy Lewis of Acme says bass woofers need to be "broken it". Don't push it to it's limit. Play it at about a 50% volume level with all tones at flat or less. For about 10 hours of play time. If it is indeed "out of the box", give it a break in period. If you bought a rig from Guitar Center that was on the floor, it's probably already broken it for ya by the multitudes that plugged in and played it.

Correct on all counts.

KJung · #5 02-20-2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Correct on all counts.

As we've discussed many times, there is little if any reason to formally break in a cab for any sort of 'safety' reasons. Some cabs will extend a little over the first few gigs in the low end, some not so much, but there is no reason to do anything special other than make sure the surrounds are loosened up on the Acme's. All other cabs, play 'em, enjoy them, and for some, they will sound a little more full in the low end after the first gig or two

.

+1 though that with a used or floor cab, the whole issue becomes a moot point.

billfitzmaurice · #6 02-20-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

As we've discussed many times, there is little if any reason to formally break in a cab for any sort of 'safety' reasons.

My advise comes from my personal experience doing what I do for a living: designing speakers. IMO that trumps merely playing through them where technical matters are concerned, although I don't just design speakers, I play through them too.

greenboy · #7 02-20-2011, 08:47 AM

I break them in like a new car. I drive them as fast as I can as hard as I can through rough-graded construction sites to make sure nothing rattles too bad and that the suspension is good enough to be worth buying. Then I drive them back to the showroom sedately, observing all speed limits.

Boy, I feel sorry for the guy that buys that thing. $30,000? It sure seemed unstable bouncing through all those rocks at speed. What a lemon!

**pacojas** · #8 02-20-2011, 08:57 AM

my in-ear speakers by Monster* required a break-in period!!! i swear there's a tiny sub-woofer in those things.

R Baer · #9 02-20-2011, 11:22 AM

Here's a page from our ML Series cabinets owners's manual regarding this subject:

BREAKING IN YOUR SPEAKER CABINET - While this is often a subject of some debate amongst bass players, it is our opinion that your drivers definitely go through a breaking in period, where the the driver’s surround will “loosen up” during the first hours of use. To protect your drivers from damage and help your speaker cabinet to eventually sound its best, we recommend do your initial playing at a low volume and do not exceed moderate levels of volume for at least 4 - 6 hours of continuous use. Pushing your drivers to maximum excursion levels before they have had a chance to properly break in can cause permanent damage to your drivers!

We came to this conclusion based on experience with our drivers, as well as the opinions of our engineers at Eminence.

greenboy · #10 02-20-2011, 11:43 AM

"our engineers at Eminence"...

Is that like "We are ready to sell you a cab - all our operators are standing by" <insert picture of cubicle droids wearing headsets>.

Or is that like some industrial espionage thing: we've got operatives inside of Eminence, learning all their closely guarded secrets about speakers and other highly unfathomable things, mwahahahahahhha! We will triumph!

...I have an engineer at Eminence too. Only one though. His Lionel train-sets are a joy to behold. Too bad he's only a night janitor there or I'd have more unfathomable info to impart on forums.

But seriously people: one wouldn't thrash a brand new vehicle the first minutes they drove it, if they had to pay for it. Common sense, yep. Good to see someone cares enough to put this in a manual too, because common sense is mis-named.

Calaverasgrande · #11 02-20-2011, 11:47 AM

yes, place a whole 12 pack of beers on top so it gets used to that. Then put it behind the guitar cabinet so it gets used to that part as well. Finally throw it down some stairs into a pile of garbage, so it used to rough loadouts.

cymatics · #12 02-20-2011, 12:12 PM

I'm not disputing the empirical observations of some of the more knowledgeable members here, but I am genuinely curious... has anyone actually seen or conducted any objective or scientific testing on this subject? A double blind listening test or maybe some before/after frequency plots?

mb94952 · #13 02-20-2011, 12:19 PM

Thanks guys ! These are all great answers !

This cab was on the floor at Guitar Center, so there is a chance it was broken in, but it looks like it was just put there because there was no dust on it and it was in the middle between a used and another new 210. I will be safe and break it in for the first few hours.

This is a thread I hope helps others, too !

KJung · #14 02-20-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cymatics

I'm not disputing the empirical observations of some of the more knowledgeable members here, but I am genuinely curious... has anyone actually seen or conducted any objective or scientific testing on this subject? A double blind listening test or maybe some before/after frequency plots?

This is the crux of why this topic seems to be confusing. By you wanting to do a 'listening test', you seem to be understanding the 'breaking in' of a cab as somehow having some lasting impact (over just gigging it). It will not.

It is clear that when the surrounds loosen a bit after a few hours of playing, there will be some additional low end extension with some speakers. Very few would disagree with this.

I guess if you really push it, if you take a cab out of the box that has never been played before, immediately put 1000 watts into it and hit the B string as hard as you can, there might be a higher probability of failure versus having played the cab at moderate levels for 20 minutes or so to make sure the surrounds were not overly tight.

Again, play a new cab for an hour or so to make sure it is OK at 'less than stupid volumes'. Then, get 'er on the gig and use it. The slight opening of the low end over the next gig or two will happen naturally.

IMO and IME, IME, IME, and more IME

R Baer · #15 02-20-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

"our engineers at Eminence"...

Is that like "We are ready to sell you a cab - all our operators are standing by"

Now Greenboy, I know you are just having fun, but for those with no direct experience working with Eminence, let me explain. I've worked with quite a few of the other speaker companies out there and I can say, without a doubt, that the folks at Eminence are the best. Try getting a custom driver made at one of the other companies... good luck. Working with the engineers at Eminence, means just that. I work directly with the actual engineers that design their drivers. I call them, they call me.

Our engineer at Eminence, Jerry McNutt, is one of the most knowledgable people I have met in the industry. Jerry worked for many months on our driver and made 6 different prototypes before we decided on a driver. Their only concern was to deliver a product that we were happy with and they treated me no differently than their largest customers who buy tens of thousands of drivers from them. Heck, they head of the development dept. even invited me out to the factory in KY and bought me lunch. I got to see firsthand everything that went into the making of our driver and well as meeting the people on the assembly line that actually build our drivers. Try getting that level of service at some of the other companies!

billfitzmaurice · #16 02-20-2011, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cymatics

has anyone actually seen or conducted any objective or scientific testing on this subject?

I have, as have literally tens of thousands of members of the audio engineering community, both individuals and companies, over the last 70 years. Give or take. You can do it too. Measure your raw driver Fs or finished cab F3, break it in, test it again. Or listen to a broken in and new cab side by side.

greenboy · #17 02-20-2011, 01:05 PM

Yeah, with the relative influx of affordable measurement gear, a little googling will probably show people all over the world who have first-hand experience with significant MEASURED driver changes after break-in. Even if you do the rice or salt on a cone routine to check box tuning after some break-in it's obvious.

What's not so obvious to most is how brutalizing a brand new driver isn't such good policy. Because people who think that way have a tendency to ruin drivers anyway. If the driver somehow didn't get screwed up though, does that mean you can do this 100 times. No thanks on that grand idea.

But the speaker companies themselves KNOW.

**jlepre** · #18 02-20-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Baer

Our engineer at Eminence, Jerry McNutt, is one of the most knowledgable people I have met in the industry.

I knew Jerry...so happy he finally got that promotion from the mailroom..

mb94952 · #19 02-20-2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

I have, as have literally tens of thousands of members of the audio engineering community, both individuals and companies, over the last 70 years. Give or take. You can do it too. Measure your raw driver Fs or finished cab F3, break it in, test it again. Or listen to a broken in and new cab side by side.

Now you're getting too scientific for my small reptilian brain. I don't know what Fs or F3 measurements mean. I just want to know if I should play a new cab at 50% volume for the first few hours or can I go all out right away.

...BUT, I'm sure there are audiophiles here who know what Fs and F3 means !

KJung · #20 02-20-2011, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

I have, as have literally tens of thousands of members of the audio engineering community, both individuals and companies, over the last 70 years. Give or take. You can do it too. Measure your raw driver Fs or finished cab F3, break it in, test it again. Or listen to a broken in and new cab side by side.

This again causes confusion. The real test is to test a 'broken in cab' (i.e., one that has gone through a formal 'breaking in' process), versus one that has three gigs on it

NO ONE is saying that, at least for some cabs, there won't be a bit of increase in low end extension after you play a cab for a couple of gigs. But, you don't need to do anything special to get there.

Take it out of the box, play it for an hour to make sure its OK. Then play a couple of gigs with it and enjoy it for the next 10 years.